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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Tue 05, 2019 5:19 am 
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Joined: May Wed 23, 2018 6:28 am
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A reference point on appearance:

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=291021&start=60

John


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Tue 05, 2019 8:48 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
Is this a high end radio? Was it top of the line when it was made? If not the factory wouldn't have grain filled it either. Not every radio left the factories looking like a Steinway Piano.

Anyway if you do the overcoat stuff make sure you clean it first with White Spirit (Mineral Spirits) as they may have waxed it, maybe even used a silicon polish … then you are in trouble.

Also need somewhere warm.

Rubbing out with #0000 steel wool you need the type that comes flat and can be wrapped around a block. Smear with Beeswax.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Tue 05, 2019 12:47 pm 
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Location: Nr London, England, SS1 3PT
John those pics of yours show it was a good class of radio: not one I recognized at the time and the OP didn't say what it was so I didn't pick that up.

His and my close up pics have at least a X2 mag and probably nearer X3. It would be good to see some pics of the whole cabinet taken at normal viewing distance what ever that is :)

The Museum pics are interesting, Rodney's with original finish and not toffee apple; somehow doubt it ever was. Then Alan's and the thickness of the lacquer can be seen around the tuning knob: looks about 1/32". Don't know how they got it on so thick without runs but to me that's how they got away without grain filler. Wonder how many times it circulated through the spray booth but that knowledge seems lost.

I did e-mail Mohawk one time and asked how much lacquer was recommended and they said:
".... our recommended maximum thickness, before stability becomes an issue, using spray gun lacquer, is four thousands of an inch."

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Tue 05, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Again, thanks to all! Since I do not know how to put multiple quotes in one post, I will leave some comments below. Please excuse any typos in your user names...

Radiosmoker....asked if it plays. Well it did before I took it apart :D Seriously though the chassis is on the bench right now. Normally I get the chassis restored and working before I address the cabinet, but do to other projects taking up the bench I decided to get the cabinet done first.

Phlogiston and Radio Fixer, thanks for the additional information!

FStephenMasek, from the standpoint of the finish what you say is true, fortunately at least, they did a great job on the numerous veneer repairs. One in particular was a missing piece of veneer in the burl that curves from the front to the side.

I am bringing it back tomorrow, I let you all know what transpires.

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Tue 05, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Superretrodyne wrote:


Interesting that Bosch's Fault had the same experience with a refinisher...

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Thu 07, 2019 10:50 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA
CrystaLac is not lacquer in my understanding.

I was told at a local paint store that it's polyurethane. The CrystaLac website seems to confirm this, "acrylic and polyurethane resins."
https://thecrystalacstore.com

I'm not knocking it, it's great stuff. I've used it on flooring and doors and other projects, and it does build nicely. But I know some people object to putting poly on radios. I wanted to call out that, just because it has "Lac" in the name does not mean it's nitrocellulose lacquer.

Also, the CrystaLac products I've used recommend a lengthy cure time--30 days to full hardness--due to their low-VOC formulation. They can be sanded and top-coated sooner than that, but that doesn't mean they're fully cured.

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Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a chainsaw.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Thu 07, 2019 6:03 pm 
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Thanks Rodney,

The radio is now back in the hands of the refinisher.......I hope to have it back next week. If all goes well I might not have to do anything.

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 08, 2019 12:31 am 
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Joined: Dec Thu 13, 2018 10:33 pm
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It's apparent that no grain filler was used on that cabinet. Or... If it was, it was only applied once and sanded.

I usually apply 3 applications of the grain filler (with sanding) before staining. Then, I apply 2-3 coats of a sanding sealer just before the lacquer application, usually 9 coats. Let it cure for a WEEK. Yes, a WEEK! Leave it alone. Do not touch it. Go do something else. After A WEEK (did I mention a week?), then you can wet sand carefully to a smooth surface. This is the tedious part. It takes me a lot of time and effort to get it just right. Polish with a low grit polish. I use Mequire's auto polish.... :)

Attached is a photo of a recent cabinet fix.

BTW, if the finish is too shiny for you, you can take a Mr. Clean scrubby (the white ones), and do a quick over to get it a bit hazier. I always use the gloss finishes and dry-matt the finishes to my liking. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE your lacquer is cured first. Put your nose on it and smell. If you smell it still off-gassing, it isn't cured.


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IMG_9152.jpg
IMG_9152.jpg [ 108.95 KiB | Viewed 482 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 08, 2019 6:44 pm 
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UKFan4Sure! wrote:
...lacquer application, usually 9 coats....cure for a WEEK.....wet sand
Do you wet sand between any of the nine coats of lacquer, or just at the end?

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many of my radios http://s269.photobucket.com/user/FSteph ... t=3&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 09, 2019 2:27 pm 
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FStephenMasek wrote:
UKFan4Sure! wrote:
...lacquer application, usually 9 coats....cure for a WEEK.....wet sand
Do you wet sand between any of the nine coats of lacquer, or just at the end?


I forgot to mention that. I do it all at once. I don't sand until all is cured, 100%. I know a lot of people may frown on that method, due to dust getting on the surface, but I am very careful to make sure it stays clean during the application of the coats. I usually spend about 1-1.5 hours laying on lacquer with set-up time in between.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 09, 2019 8:41 pm 
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Thanks, that is interesting. I've usually wet sanded along the way, then put the final cost or two on with no sanding.

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many of my radios http://s269.photobucket.com/user/FSteph ... t=3&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 2:24 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
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Location: Dallas Tx
I don't sand in between unless there's some dirt nibs or orange peel that needs to be smoothed out, to get a piano finish you always have to wet sand the last coat and buff buff buff.


Attachments:
File comment: Piano finish
joes radios 639.jpg
joes radios 639.jpg [ 118.46 KiB | Viewed 430 times ]
File comment: Buff buff buff
joes radios 548.jpg
joes radios 548.jpg [ 154.95 KiB | Viewed 430 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 5:12 am 
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I wI'll change to doing what you guys do, wait until the end to wet sand, unless to address dirt or orange peel.

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many of my radios http://s269.photobucket.com/user/FSteph ... t=3&page=1


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 5:30 am 
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Location: Dallas Tx
Yes save your self some time, no need to wet sand in between coats, I also use a small 3 inch air buffer to get into small areas.


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File comment: Here I am wet sanding with (DA) sander using a final step 3000 grit pad. Buffing will be the next step
joes radios 537.jpg
joes radios 537.jpg [ 172.17 KiB | Viewed 422 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 5:33 am 
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Joined: May Fri 10, 2013 4:09 am
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Location: Dallas Tx
FStephenMasek wrote:
I wI'll change to doing what you guys do, wait until the end to wet sand, unless to address dirt or orange peel.

You can wet sand out orange peel with 400-800 grit wet sand paper using a flat rubber pad, clean and wipe dry , tack off with tack rag then recoat with your clear lacquer


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 10, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Good point Fred, the water will still help.

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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 22, 2019 3:26 am 
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Location: Groveland MA
The cabinet is back from the refinisher, the groove that was in it is now repaired, and the finish is much better. Of the two photos below, "beforretrun" was taken after it came back from the refinisher the first time, "afterreturn" is the way it is now.

The lighting of the two photos is not the same but I think you can see that the finish is flatter and smoother than before.

Definitely a learning experience, I now know better what to ask for and to expect if I choose to have a cabinet refinished again.

Russ


Attachments:
beforereturn.jpeg
beforereturn.jpeg [ 134.16 KiB | Viewed 309 times ]
afterreturn.jpeg
afterreturn.jpeg [ 122.51 KiB | Viewed 309 times ]

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A place for everything, everything in it's place. I just don't remember where all those places are.
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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 22, 2019 4:41 am 
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Beautiful!

John


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 22, 2019 12:11 pm 
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That is much better.


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 Post subject: Re: Is this what a refinish without grain filler looks like?
PostPosted: Feb Fri 22, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Glad that you got this resolved!

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