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 Post subject: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 12:33 am 
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I was wondering of anyone has tried applying the vinyl veneering on a radio cabinet (?). It's aimed at car interiors, but can be used anywhere. I was going to give it try on my latest project for trim only. I see you can even put clear coat over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Possibly it will be too thick, this might be better: http://www.vintageradiolabels.com/refaux-pro.html

From the Online Auctions threads by Rodney.

Watched the video but unfortunately it doesn't show the interesting bit of cutting out the holes for the dial and speaker. You have wait to see that when you buy a "kit". No shots of the finished result either !!

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 4:47 pm 
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decojoe67 wrote:
I was wondering of anyone has tried applying the vinyl veneering on a radio cabinet (?). It's aimed at car interiors, but can be used anywhere. I was going to give it try on my latest project for trim only. I see you can even put clear coat over it.


You may want to try a test patch first on a separate panel (not on the radio), then see if it shrinks in the heat. Vinyl veneer used to be called "MacTac", and it only stuck for a while at the edges before it started peeling. Maybe it's better now, but it's not easier than regular paper backed veneer.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 7:02 pm 
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Thanks guys. I actually got two sheets so have a choice, but now I'm thinking I'm going to do a faux quilted walnut myself with paints. My biggest concern is it having a small "step". That will make the set look really cheesy. The whole idea is actually sounded cheesy to me now! Oh well, it wasn't expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 7:34 pm 
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I have used the vinyl wood veneer decal on some radios and I had very good results. The edge of it isn't that much different than of the photo finish. The photo finish has a little bit of an edge also but these decals have a little edge not much, the clear coat over the edge will soften it. There are some very important steps that you will have to take (EASY) in order for the vinyl decal to stick good and when you clear over the vinyl decal. I always clear over the decal. I don't know how to do a faux finish and the vinyl wood grain veneer method worked good for me. I will post a few pictures of it when I find time here's just one picture.


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File comment: This philco speaker grill has the vinyl decal wood grain along the vertical bars and on the upper cabinet
august 2019 420.jpg
august 2019 420.jpg [ 234.48 KiB | Viewed 1312 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Sun 01, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Thanks for your input Fred. Your Philco came out nicely!
I'll give the vinyl film consideration after I get it. If I like how it looks, I might still go with it. It would be much easier than a painted faux finish. The problem with faux finish, that I encountered, is that you can so easily begin to make the pattern into a dark muddy mess. It's hard not to mix the dark into the lighter areas. Gluing on veneer would be the toughest because I'd have to make it do two soft 90 degree turns. Unless it's done like it pro, it's going to splinter.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 02, 2019 2:57 pm 
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If you did use real veneer you would have to remove the veneer already on cabinet otherwise you would have very thick edge. I could learn how to do a faux but I don't run into many cabinets that need it replaced . You what would be nice if someone would make large water slide decal sheets that come in a variety of wood grains, that way you could cut out the patterns you need and apply it like photo finish and clear over it. As far as I know the photo finish used back in the day was applied like a decal. But don't get me lying, I'm not positive that's the way it was done. You know you can purchase blank decal sheets and print a wood pattern on them. Problem I found is you need special ink, a laser printer I think. Also I would guess the thickness of the decal would have to be thicker than the standard stuff that you see like from radio Daze. You know if Radio Daze would start making decal sheets of exotic wood patterns I believe it would sell. Something they should look into. You know one could make a templet and transfer that onto decal sheet and cut it out, sometimes leaving an overhanging edge would be ok just trim it off after decal has dried.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 02, 2019 5:42 pm 
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fred taylor wrote:
If you did use real veneer you would have to remove the veneer already on cabinet otherwise you would have very thick edge. I could learn how to do a faux but I don't run into many cabinets that need it replaced . You what would be nice if someone would make large water slide decal sheets that come in a variety of wood grains, that way you could cut out the patterns you need and apply it like photo finish and clear over it. As far as I know the photo finish used back in the day was applied like a decal. But don't get me lying, I'm not positive that's the way it was done. You know you can purchase blank decal sheets and print a wood pattern on them. Problem I found is you need special ink, a laser printer I think. Also I would guess the thickness of the decal would have to be thicker than the standard stuff that you see like from radio Daze. You know if Radio Daze would start making decal sheets of exotic wood patterns I believe it would sell. Something they should look into. You know one could make a templet and transfer that onto decal sheet and cut it out, sometimes leaving an overhanging edge would be ok just trim it off after decal has dried.

I have a set that had holes put into the front of the cabinet for external audio (bright idea - not) The only way I can see to fix the area is with a veneer strip going around the cabinet. I'm going to first try stippling in the filled area, but if that doesn't work, then I'll do the faux finish.
I contacted that supplier on the Net of water-slide photo-finish decals for Philco's and he never returned my request. I will not play games with a supplier, so he's out. I too do not understand how he, or any other supplier, does not make the decals in large sheets. I would buy a variety and leave it aside.
If you watch a YT video on creating a faux finish, it's actually not all that difficult. It's basically make a messy scribble with a variety of stains and brushes!


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 02, 2019 9:09 pm 
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If you wanted to use real veneer that is adhesive backed and doesn't require a lot of playing with glues and clamps the adhesive backed pre finished veneers that diy kitchen cabinet refacing jobs use might be worth looking at... I've seen it used for it's intended purpose but haven't tried or seen used on radios yet.

What I'd probably do is find a junk cabinet with the same grain veneer, soak the junker till the he veneer separates, recover a piece, steam enough of the original off around the extra hole, fill the hole then stripe in the new veneer trying to match grain variation enough at the seam that it would be hard to tell the patch.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Mon 02, 2019 11:38 pm 
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I had a chance on my lunch break at work to fool with the set. I did a basic dark walnut faux veneer and it came out pretty nice! I just taped it off, used dark walnut (against the natural walnut body of the cabinet) and then used the old crumbled plastic bag technique on it. It looks very nice! I'll post a pic when it's complete. I love saving a set that would've likely ended-up in a dumpster.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Wed 04, 2019 9:44 am 
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Fred

I believe that original faux finish was paper and not a decal. An artist called Stuart Schooley (search on here) did a lot of work and write up on drawing the faux, photocopying and then colouring once on the radio (finished off with lacquer of course).

Strong, handable decal material could be bought from Kustom Rides: https://www.kustomrides.com/decal-film-laminate/

Just looked and they have discontinued the Clear :cry:

Faux finish done by Philips has a lot of attention to detail including embossing the paper with grain. Don't fill this and sand down obviously :). It has an advantage that woodworm (at least ours) dont like it and there were no holes in the front of this radio. Loads in the sides :cry:
Attachment:
753  WEB.jpg
753 WEB.jpg [ 181.5 KiB | Viewed 1178 times ]


Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Thu 05, 2019 7:14 pm 
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You guys might've seen the photo of the set finished in other posts, but I thought I'd complete my thread here too. I went with masking off the cabinet, dabbling dark walnut gel stain on the natural walnut, and using the "crumbled plastic bag" technique for a subtle figured walnut grain. Being it's so easy to do, I realized the vinyl trim, although good for small details, is a lame way to go on the actual body of the cabinet. I really like how the custom touch came out on the set, and it did well to hide the alterations to the lower front of the cabinet. It's a pretty little set.

PS - I just got the first roll of the vinyl wood-graining. I must say that it's pretty nice! Thinner than I thought it would be. I take back saying it would look lame on a radio cabinet. The only thing is how well it stays adhered, and how it accepts clear coating.


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1937 Detrola 159.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 2:49 am 
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If your going to use vinyl wood grain I would recommend getting some adhesion promoter. I comes in a spray can its clear and you can get it at auto paint supply, its made by (SEM) I apply the vinyl after the cabinet has been toned and sprayed with sealer, then apply the vinyl wood grain. I would spray the sheet of vinyl before your cut out the strips your going to use. It will help the clear coat stick to the vinyl a lot better. You can even the spray the decal area over the sealer where your going to place the vinyl wood grain decal.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 10:24 am 
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Joe

I take it that your faux is on the banding at the top of the cabinet. Its hard to see the bottom. For a burr, that it looks like, I can see the dab and blot method working OK (my Dad who was a painter and decorator and used to call that "scrumbling" BTW).

For my cabinet fronts with the exaggerated grain that wouldn't work so the best way is possibly the Stewart Schooley method. I have yet to try it though.

Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Radio Fixer wrote:
Joe

I take it that your faux is on the banding at the top of the cabinet. Its hard to see the bottom. For a burr, that it looks like, I can see the dab and blot method working OK (my Dad who was a painter and decorator and used to call that "scrumbling" BTW).

For my cabinet fronts with the exaggerated grain that wouldn't work so the best way is possibly the Stewart Schooley method. I have yet to try it though.

Gary

Gary, I'm not sure what you mean by my faux being on the banding at the top only. Both the top and bottom dark banding is faux and of my own design. Originally it was all natural walnut.
My technique was to first apply Old Masters natural walnut wiping stain on the entire cabinet, then mask off the banding and dabble Old Masters dark walnut gel stain. I then crumpled a plastic bag and did random tapping. You have to keep using a new crumpled area as to keep it very random and remove stain rather than just make a muddy dark pattern. You want that lighter walnut to show through. I also added "Japan Dryer" to the gel so it would dry faster. The gel takes a LONG time to dry without it.
It's funny, but many years ago I seriously gave it thought to call someone I knew to work with him doing faux finishes on a large scale. Having an artistic talent I thought it would be fun and profitable. I never went for it though.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Agh! I understand now. I thought you were just touching up what was there.

thanks Gary


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Radio Fixer wrote:
Agh! I understand now. I thought you were just touching up what was there.

thanks Gary

It's not perfect, but I agree with what one restorer on YT said: "when you achieve 80% success, STOP!" Going for 100% could ruin everything. I was at 80% with this one in my mind and called it finished. Years ago I always went back to "improve" my work and usually regretted it.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl "veneer" on a radio cabinet?
PostPosted: Dec Fri 06, 2019 4:57 pm 
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I still haven't learnt that yet ! :D

Gary


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