Forums :: Resources :: Features :: Photo Gallery :: Vintage Radio Shows :: Archives
Support This Site: Contributors :: Advertise


It is currently Sep Tue 17, 2019 3:23 pm


All times are UTC [ DST ]





Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2006 5:56 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11100
Location: Vieques, PR, USA
Lyndell Scott wrote:
this is the case, I don't consider it a suitable replacement for the Alps. Is it possible you were thinking of another model made by Kodak?.


Must be. I have emailed the guy who has done my decals in the past to see if I can get more info.

-Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Thu 18, 2006 11:31 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11100
Location: Vieques, PR, USA
I received a reply....he has been using the Kodak First Check printer. That was a several k$ unit when it first hit the market but now they can be had at reasonable prices. Prints gold/silver/white. But the model is now out of production and just like ALPS one has to be concerned with future support from Kodak.

-Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2006 3:35 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
Thanks Exray

Found this site ( http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/ ... wPost.aspx ) which has some interesting information about the Kodak printer. Don't know how accurate it is, however.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2006 9:21 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3352
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314, USA
I completed the experiment that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Although the test decal I created had yellowish (simulated gold ?) text with a black outline..........the experiment was a total flop. The yellow text ink was just too transparent once the decal was applied to a wood radio cabinet. It turned out exactly as Lyndell said it would. Even though I used 4 varying shades of yellow they all lost their color on the wood. Sooooo.......back to the ol' drawing board.
Image

_________________
.....Dennis.....
Live Long and Prosper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: May Fri 19, 2006 10:37 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 11100
Location: Vieques, PR, USA
Lyndell Scott wrote:
longer made and even used ones are very expensive. Alps does not sell replacement parts, but requires a printer exchange which is very expensive and time consuming as the printer must be shipped to Japan. Also, I recently saw a note at the Alps website that they will stop supporting the printer entirely in 2007.


My friend is saying you can still get a refurb done in the US. $350 plus shipping to California for the 5000 model.

-Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 15, 2007 4:01 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 7240
Location: Portland Oregon
Wow, great job! I imagine the paper is could be any water transfer paper but I wonder what the powder is? I've got some of the paper and now to find out what the powder is. It Could be "powder coat" powder that they are using but I don't know how hot that stuff has to be to melt and run together. Not to far from me is a place that does powder coating and I just might be able to get a sample to try.
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Thu 15, 2007 5:08 pm 
Banned

Joined: Dec Wed 13, 2006 4:03 am
Posts: 1209
Location: 18.1000N 65.4763W
The powder is called embossing powder. Its a fairly common item at craft stores, etc. I'm not sure how its temperature range may differ from powder coating powder but it will definitely 'cure' easily with a heat gun.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul Sat 14, 2007 9:42 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 2862
Location: York, PA USA
I finally got a Zenith T825 and it, too, suffered from the dial ring corrosion and number wear. Using the lettering template Dennis kindly sent, and the white 'do it yourself' decal kit, I sanded and sprayed the dial ring last night and made the decals. I put them on this morning. I'll recap it tomorrow, but it'll be a few days before it plays. The 35C5 jumped off the bench and imploded on the concrete floor. Plus I'm looking for the dial indicator - thsi one had one of the pointers broken off and MIA.

I do like that decal kit.

Image

_________________
Mort Denison


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Wed 30, 2008 5:43 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Tue 22, 2008 8:59 pm
Posts: 289
Location: Niskayuna, NY
Hmm. I have often wondered about making replacement decals for radios. I don't own an inkjet printer, but I have both a laser and an old Tektronix solid ink printer. The Tektronix (now Xerox) printer uses blocks of wax instead of liquid ink or powdered toner. The wax is melted and transferred onto the paper to make text and images. It's much more opaque than regular ink. So much so that the printer has to have a special transparency mode to dither the ink for printing on transparency films. You'd only get black projected otherwise.

The disadvantage of this system (other than the fact that the printer weighs 80 pounds and is rather unusual) is that the wax ink can melt off the paper if heated enough. This isn't normally a problem, but if you print, say, a schematic and have it on your workbench then set the soldering iron down there, the heat will make the ink run. Also, since the printing is slick and wax, you can't really hilight things or write over it with a pencil. (This is where the LaserJet 5si comes in. 11x17" schematics - yay!). It produces wonderful color though.

I wonder if this could be used to print on the decal paper? I've never used decal paper - I'm assuming that there isn't any heat in the normal decal process? I'm also assuming that the decal paper will stand up to small amounts of heat produced by the printer. The embossing powder wouldn't work at all with this printer. The ink is solid pretty much the moment it hits the paper.

-Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 2:35 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3352
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314, USA
Retro,

"I wonder if this could be used to print on the decal paper? I've never used decal paper - I'm assuming that there isn't any heat in the normal decal process? I'm also assuming that the decal paper will stand up to small amounts of heat produced by the printer. The embossing powder wouldn't work at all with this printer. The ink is solid pretty much the moment it hits the paper."

I would think that a small amount of heat would not affect the decal paper. If the Ink is as opaque as you describe then there would be no use for the embossing powder anyway......the opaque ink would be just as good I'd think....plus, you might be able to simulate a gold or silver hue - with black edging ?

_________________
.....Dennis.....
Live Long and Prosper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 3:11 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 13371
Location: Tennessee,USA
Hi Ian,
f the "ink" is actually wax, how would one apply a protective coating to avoid a smudge or possible heat damage just in case a dial was placed near a window, and got hot enough to melt or get soft?

Lacquer or even enamel would not go over a waxy area, right?
Take care,

_________________
Gary Rabbitt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 4:25 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
There are two types of decal paper. One type is designed for ink jet printers and another for laser printers. Any printer that uses a heat transfer method should probably use the laser jet paper. That is what I use with the Alps printer. The ink used by the Alps may in fact be very similar to the wax ink used by the Xerox printer.

I remember back in the 70s or so when the Tektronix Phaser printer was introduced. IIRC, the cost was in the thousands of dollars, but we were still impressed with the technology. Amazing that one can now get quality color printing on a printer that costs less than a $100. Of course the inks cost a fortune unless one uses generics as I do.

Alps printers and ink cartridges are still available on eBay. And I think it is still the most practical and effective method for making decals.

With all the DIY printing projects, I wonder why there is no market for a manufacturer to make a printer with the same capabilities as the Alps. It was truly a unique printer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 4:58 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Tue 22, 2008 8:59 pm
Posts: 289
Location: Niskayuna, NY
Does the Alps printer use solid little blocks of ink, or some sort of liquid mixture?

The Phaser ink is a solid block. Each colored ink block is a somewhat different shape, preventing you from mixing them up. Loading the ink is like playing with the little toy workbench and the pegs - only without the mallet.

There is a certain amount if heat used in the transfer process. A lot less than a laser printer, but more than an inkjet. The ink itself is pretty durable, and won't melt in sunlight or moderate heat (like inside a car). But don't lay a soldering iron on the paper, or run a Phaser printed page through a laser printer.

The ink for the Phaser is expensive too, and unfortunately the generic ink is totally unsuitable on these printers. I've seen many machines destroyed or badly damaged by third party ink. Something about the different melting/solidifying points of the ink. The Phaser is a complicated machine, but it really does print great.

One of these days, I'll pick up some decal paper and try it. I don't know what would stick to the wax ink, if it would be possible to laquer over it. I have never worked with finishes or laquer, although I've been meaning to learn.

-Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 5:54 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3352
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314, USA
Lyndell Scott wrote:
With all the DIY printing projects, I wonder why there is no market for a manufacturer to make a printer with the same capabilities as the Alps.


Now THAT would be great. Not holding my breath though.

_________________
.....Dennis.....
Live Long and Prosper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 8:49 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
Ian,

The Alps printer uses a type of plastic ribbon coated with the ink. Heat transfers the ink from the ribbon onto the media surface. The ribbon is one pass so must by replaced after completing a pass. What makes it unique is that it can actually print white using a white ink cartridge. With an undercoating of white, the other colors can be dithered on top so the result is opaque. What's even better is the there is also a gold ink cartridge that matches perfectly the gold of most decals. With this, no undercoating is necessary as the gold prints solid and is opaque.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2008 9:26 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3352
Location: Sterling Heights, Michigan 48314, USA
Lyndell,

Is it possible to print gold decals with black edging ?

_________________
.....Dennis.....
Live Long and Prosper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Fri 01, 2008 6:01 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
Absolutely


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2008 9:24 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Sun 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Posts: 1262
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Sadly, Alps ink carts are no longer being manufactured and the printers are no longer being made.

_________________
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2008 1:23 am 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Dec Sun 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Posts: 1262
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Lyndell Scott wrote:
Has anyone tried making decals using a color laser printer? I would think one would run into the same problem as using an inkjet printer, but have not seen anything written up about it. This is the case even with an Alps printer requiring printing a white background before overlaying with standard colors. This is not required when printing using the gold cartridge as it is printed solid. It may be that the powdered toners used in a laser printer produce a more opaque result when fused than liquid inks. The paper I use with my Alps printer is specified for use with laser printers. There is a different paper specied for use with inkjet printers. Both the Alps and laser printers use solid inks/toners and a heat process to transfer/set the ink/toner. The difference is that there are white, gold, and silver ink cartridges available for the Alps printer. I see no reason, however, why a laser printer could not have the same capability if a manufacturer chose do design one that way. I guess its a matter of not enough demand for one to justify the cost of development.


The toner of a laser printer is thicker than ALPS ink. Both of these are thicker than inkjet ink. The reason that the inks look transparant is because they are transparant. Inkjet is the most transparant. Alps, if double layered, looks like silk screened lettering.

A colored laser printer has very good opacity. In fact, many rival doubled alps ink. But unfortunately, no laser printer that I know of prints white. White toner would be a simple thing to make so the technology is there. I'm sure that some company out there somewhere makes white toner. But where.

_________________
Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Feb Sun 03, 2008 4:29 am 
Member

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1034
Actually there is a company that makes white toner for a laser printer, but it is very expensive and specific for a printer that is essentially obsolete. Go to http://www.atttransfer.com/whitetoner.html


Top
 Profile  
 
Post New Topic Post Reply  [ 71 posts ]  Moderator: Peter Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests



Search for:
Jump to:  




























Privacy Policy :: Powered by phpBB