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cwmoser
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 1:12 pm |
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am Posts: 2885 Location: Advance, NC USA
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That Chassis looks so nice ... why would one want to hide it in a wood box 
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 2:44 pm |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Thanks guys for the nice comments.
_________________ Crist
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 2:52 pm |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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I have had a bit of a set back. I was just starting to display a test pattern to adjust the picture when I heard a HV squeal coming from the HV cage. After some trouble shooting, it looks like the FB is the source. I'm going to have to replace the FB. I'm checking on the availability of one locally. ETF lists 2, 1 from 2 different manufacturers. The FB part numbers are:
Zenith = S17233 Thoradson = FLY-52 Merit = HVO-53 Stancor = A-8267 Triad = D-45 Ram = X070 ???? = HO-217
_________________ Crist
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Tom Schulz
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Sun 03, 2017 7:00 pm |
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm Posts: 5481 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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You can get a squeal if the horizontal oscillator is off of the correct frequency. Did the screen go completely dark? If not completely dark, was the test pattern synced?
_________________ Tom
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irob2345
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Mon 04, 2017 6:55 am |
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Joined: May Sun 07, 2017 11:35 am Posts: 1374 Location: Belrose, NSW, Australia
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Yes, the noise came from the FB but that doesn't mean it's the cause.
Heat, smoke, smouldering FB, then yes.
I'm not a fan of water for cleaning old electronics. Too much hygroscopic insulation, high voltages and high impedances. Asking for trouble, even with a long bakeout afterwards. Compressed air, a paintbrush and alcohol (for the chassis!) is my preference.
Although I did have a 1930s radio chassis recently where the alcohol removed all the paint! The factory where they sprayed those chassis must have been an interesting place to work!!
Hope it's the horizontal oscillator.
_________________ Wax, paper, bitumen, cotton, high voltages - what could possibly go wrong?
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:05 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Tom Schulz wrote: You can get a squeal if the horizontal oscillator is off of the correct frequency. Did the screen go completely dark? If not completely dark, was the test pattern synced? Tom, The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB.
_________________ Crist
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:06 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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irob2345 wrote: Yes, the noise came from the FB but that doesn't mean it's the cause.
Heat, smoke, smouldering FB, then yes.
I'm not a fan of water for cleaning old electronics. Too much hygroscopic insulation, high voltages and high impedances. Asking for trouble, even with a long bakeout afterwards. Compressed air, a paintbrush and alcohol (for the chassis!) is my preference.
Although I did have a 1930s radio chassis recently where the alcohol removed all the paint! The factory where they sprayed those chassis must have been an interesting place to work!!
Hope it's the horizontal oscillator. No water. Alcohol then baked for several hours before and during re-coating.
_________________ Crist
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 5:28 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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The H freq. is 15, 860 cps.
_________________ Crist
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Tom Schulz
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 6:14 am |
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Joined: Mar Sun 01, 2009 10:27 pm Posts: 5481 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Crist Rigotti wrote: Tom, The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB. Are there any screws that might be loose? If there were something wrong with the windings, I would expect the high voltage to drop and the picture to be affected. Or as a minimum I would expect the flyback to overheat. Not synced is what you get when the horizontal hold is mis-adjusted or can not be adjusted to get a normal picture.
_________________ Tom
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 7:55 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Tom Schulz wrote: Crist Rigotti wrote: Tom, The screen didn't do anything. It looks normal. Not sure what you mean by synced. But it does display a very good picture. All is normal except the noise from the FB. Are there any screws that might be loose? If there were something wrong with the windings, I would expect the high voltage to drop and the picture to be affected. Or as a minimum I would expect the flyback to overheat. Not synced is what you get when the horizontal hold is mis-adjusted or can not be adjusted to get a normal picture. No screws loose. Coil is tight. Everything is tight. After running the TV for several hours tonight, I felt the coil and it was barely above room temperature and the core was warm but not hot. I could grab it with my hand and hold it for a long time with no problem. The squeal seems to have diminished some. Barely audible now. I'll check it in the morning and see what happens. OK on the not synced question. Thanks.
_________________ Crist
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irob2345
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Tue 05, 2017 8:07 am |
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Joined: May Sun 07, 2017 11:35 am Posts: 1374 Location: Belrose, NSW, Australia
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If the pic is normal but you have a whistle (usually at half the line frequency) it could be from the FB's ferrite core. A crack or chip in the ferrite will do this. If the noise is core related you will be able to affect it by pressing on the core with the set running, using a plastic rod or similar well-insulated probe. If probing to core affects the noise, examine the core carefully and see if there is a crack or chip. If so, coat the area with contact adhesive and leave it an hour or more to cure. If that's not it. you can try the core squeeze manouver. With the set running, if you can do it safely, tighten the screws that hold the core together. Go gently on this, no more than is needed, it may affect the HV hence the picture size by changing the core's air gap. There is another possibility. Is there a large HV ceramic capacitor? They can "sing" because of the piezoelectric effect. You may need to replace it. In Australia, early Astor TVs suffered from this problem, many FBs were replaced without fixing the whistle! Later Philips FBs used epoxy with tiny glass beads mixed in to set the core air gap. Great idea, but sometimes this would crack, the result was a very loud whistle that you couldn't fix, you had to change out the FB.
_________________ Wax, paper, bitumen, cotton, high voltages - what could possibly go wrong?
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:17 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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The noise has almost gone away. I'm keeping my ear on it though.
_________________ Crist
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:21 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:23 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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I cleaned up my good picture tube I got from the ETF in October. It had some glue from duct tape in several places on the metal cone. I cleaned off the gunk, removed the labels (there were 2 of them. 1 was a Caution label and the other was also a Caution label with the CRT serial number on it), lightly sanded and cleaned off the cone. I then masked off the glass portion to the tube. One more cleaning with acetone and then 2 coats of Rust-Oleum Black BBQ paint. When dry then 2 coats of Satin Clear Enamel. This CRT looks good!
I then recreated the labels using my CAD program. Saved them as pdf's and a trip to the copy place gave me some nice red labels on light card stock. After I trimmed them to size, I used some spray contact glue and fixed them into place. Not exact duplicates but very close.
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100_8515a.JPG [ 96.61 KiB | Viewed 2774 times ]
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_________________ Crist
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:28 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:30 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:33 am |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens.
_________________ Crist
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shovelhead13746
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 3:38 pm |
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Joined: Oct Fri 01, 2010 8:22 pm Posts: 118 Location: Binghamton NY area
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Can I just say WOW You have outdone yourself on this set. It looks like it has time traveled.
_________________ "This will be the last radio I bring home. I PROMISE!"
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bandersen
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 4:39 pm |
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Joined: May Fri 29, 2009 4:35 am Posts: 2189 Location: Chicago, IL USA
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Crist Rigotti wrote: A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens. Ignore my earlier comment. I was quite surprised to see a set this early uses a 44 MHz IF. Good luck with the 415
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Crist Rigotti
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Post subject: Re: Zenith H2447R 19" Porthole TV Posted: Dec Thu 07, 2017 5:28 pm |
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Joined: Jan Sun 18, 2015 5:01 am Posts: 1467 Location: Waxahachie Texas
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bandersen wrote: Crist Rigotti wrote: A very generous member of this another forum gave me a B&K 415 and a 1077B along with most of the cables. I wanted to use the 415 to align this set and after making up the missing cable and converting the mic connectors to BNC, I found out that the 415 doesn't work on the "sweep" function. So over the next week I'll dive into that to see if I can get it going. I'll make a post in the Test Equipment section when that happens. Ignore my earlier comment. I was quite surprised to see a set this early uses a 44 MHz IF. Good luck with the 415 Yeah, I think I'm going to need it! Thanks.
_________________ Crist
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