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 Post subject: Packard Bell 5-NP - "No Problem"
PostPosted: Oct Tue 25, 2016 12:09 am 
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Edit: winter of 2018, still haven't touched this veneer repair. Radio was packed in a tote and buried behind Xmas totes in the attic.
My New question is, IF I use Titebond 1, let dry, then iron the veneer to the curves, Will the heat generated by the tubes loosen the glue?

Oct 2016: I picked up this Packard Bell radio recently because it was cheap and kind of unique to me. It has a closed back design, all wood cabinet with veneered curves. The tubes are classic AA5 from 1939. 35L6, 35Z5 and 3 more octals. There is a 12Q7 with a grid cap, bit of a relic. There are no vents in the cabinet except that hot air can escape out the slot at the bottom.

It is "stationized" for the San Francisco area, way too far south for me, but I have plans for that later. 2 of the straps for the push buttons are broken, as is the tuning knob.

I thought I could learn veneer repair, so here are my questions. How to clamp the curved sections? How to prevent the glue from oozing out and maybe getting on the clamps? What glue should I use?


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Last edited by westcoastjohn on Dec Mon 03, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: How to glue veneer curves?
PostPosted: Oct Tue 25, 2016 1:26 am 
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for veneer use contact cement and stick it down with a rubber roller no glue to ooze.

There may be others use white glue i will let them answer

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 Post subject: Re: How to glue veneer curves?
PostPosted: Oct Tue 25, 2016 2:09 am 
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I'd soak the veneer to soften it, and then form it around the curve... let it dry in place.

Use wood glue or contact cement (the type used for counter top laminates.)

Pete

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 Post subject: Re: How to glue veneer curves?
PostPosted: Oct Wed 26, 2016 5:29 pm 
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Peter Bertini wrote:
I'd soak the veneer to soften it, and then form it around the curve... let it dry in place.

Use wood glue or contact cement (the type used for counter top laminates.)

Pete
OK, soak the veneer to soften, then apply contact cement while the veneer is still damp? Or wait till dry and reformed before the glue?

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 Post subject: Re: How to glue veneer curves?
PostPosted: Oct Wed 26, 2016 5:40 pm 
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If this radio was built with hide glue and you are planning on re-sticking the original veneer down, use ONLY hide glue. white or yellow glue will not stick to hide glue (I found out the hard way). Contact cement is solvable in lacquer thinner, so refinish is a problem. I have a similar issue in process. I will need to replace the veneer with new. My thought is to use peel-and-stick veneer.

TerryMSU


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 Post subject: Re: How to glue veneer curves?
PostPosted: Oct Thu 27, 2016 3:35 am 
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TerryMSU wrote:
If this radio was built with hide glue and you are planning on re-sticking the original veneer down, use ONLY hide glue.
TerryMSU
Thanks, Terry. I am thinking the heat generated in this cabinet softened the original glue, and it probably was hide glue. Judging from the chassis rust, moisture and heat.

I don't plan to strip it, but will stain the scratches and gaps to blend with the original finish. The grooves in the veneer would be tough to reproduce, so I think patch and fill is the way to go with this one.

I will think about it, no rush. This radio will be a nothing special shelf queen so it will never get as hot as it did when it was in regular use. Since I'm wanting to learn, I might try the hide glue, if I can find some, Lee Valley, maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: Titebond 1 - will tube heat reactivate?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 18, 2018 8:19 pm 
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My New question is, IF I use Titebond 1, let dry, then iron the veneer to the curves, Will the heat generated by the tubes loosen the glue?

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Watch the doughnut, not the hole.
Burl Ives, RIP, oldtimer.
[:l>)


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 Post subject: Re: Titebond 1 - will tube heat reactivate?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 18, 2018 9:12 pm 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
My New question is, IF I use Titebond 1, let dry, then iron the veneer to the curves, Will the heat generated by the tubes loosen the glue?

I highly doubt it.

This is how Franklin tests it's Titebond glue:

"Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145°F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification."


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 Post subject: Re: Titebond 1 - will tube heat reactivate?
PostPosted: Nov Mon 19, 2018 4:42 am 
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OK, that's convincing. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Titebond 1 - will tube heat reactivate?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 22, 2018 3:38 am 
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westcoastjohn wrote:
My New question is, IF I use Titebond 1, let dry, then iron the veneer to the curves, Will the heat generated by the tubes loosen the glue?

The problem is, if the radio was glued with hide glue, the titebond (poly vinyl acetate) will cause the hide glue to go to jello.
Depending on how sound the structure that you are glueing to or reglueing, this may or may not matter.
Tough question.
Edit:
heat from the tubes, etc. will not matter

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 Post subject: Re: Titebond 1 - will tube heat reactivate?
PostPosted: Nov Sun 25, 2018 3:15 am 
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Success, with a minor issue. I applied Titebond Original to the cabinet and the veneer, using a spreader cut from thin plastic.
Allowed to dry for a day, then applied the heat. I heated a flat iron on the camp stove and ironed the veneer down, with a dampish but not wet towel wrapped around the iron to reduce the chance of scorching the veneer. The cloth was better dry than wet. I used my laser thermometer to check the iron temp.

Obviously was denied access to the wife's steam iron and didn't wish to buy one at a thrift store, but that is an option.

I ruined the old finish on one corner, using a wet towel and too much heat. Some old stain and lacquer came off on the towel. :x But the curved veneer edges are glued down nicely.

Now I will do the E-caps and see if it will play, if so, then on to the broken straps for the push buttons.

Edit: With a recap half way completed, the radio plays pretty well, so there is no excuse now to stop me from fixing the push buttons. In search of ribbon to replace the cloth straps.

The power tube, writing rubbed off, turns out to be a 50L6, IDed by measuring its voltage drop. I found that while the Candohm resistor is healthy, it drops far too much voltage, with 50L6 getting only 38 volts and the rectifier about 25 volts. Radio played but only at half volume. So I've replaced the Candohm with a 4 ohm sand resistor and voltages are now correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Packard Bell 5-NP - "Not Practical"?
PostPosted: Nov Thu 29, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Attachment:
My 5NP.jpg
My 5NP.jpg [ 156.2 KiB | Viewed 840 times ]
Notice the tiny slots provided for the speaker. No ventilation holes in the back of the cabinet. The loop antenna has to be attached to the back of the cabinet with tacks and then the chassis slips in. 4 little nubs elevate the cabinet so air can flow under. Somebody replaced 2 and added 2 to protect the cord.

The cabinet is attractive, but the thin slots are unusual for a speaker grill.
I see another 5NP in the radioattic has large slots cut between the grill bars with some grill cloth added. I'm thinking this was done aftermarket. The plastic versions of this design have open back but narrow speaker grill slots.
Attachment:
Packard_Bell_Bunnell.jpg
Packard_Bell_Bunnell.jpg [ 95.45 KiB | Viewed 840 times ]


My radio is back together for now. Reception is pretty amazing, picking up AM stations I haven't heard in a while.

I'm going to "Smoke Test" the cabinet and take some temperatures. I've learned to work with curved veneer a bit, so that's a plus.

Update Seems to be OK heat-wise. It is a tall enough cabinet I suppose.

_________________
Watch the doughnut, not the hole.
Burl Ives, RIP, oldtimer.
[:l>)


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