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 Post subject: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Jan Sun 27, 2019 2:47 pm 
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News last week indicated that wreckage of a Norseman aircraft was pulled up back in the 80,s buy a fisherman in the English Channel and then let go back down in the water . Now research team is working with that fisherman to relocate the wreckage and pull it back up to examine whats left of the aircraft. There is many airplanes at the bottom of the channel but the Norseman is unique in its structure and being a US military airplane would have had the upgraded Pratt and Whitney double wasp engine. If this airplane is found and ID , and is Glenn's plane it will end the Mystery of what happened to Glenn Miller, and the crew members. RIP


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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Jan Thu 31, 2019 12:57 am 
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Thanks, Fred. You posted this in the more obscure end of the forum, so I just spied it.
Now have to look up the story of the crash.

Maybe someone will write a screen play for a movie. I know Clive Cussler could do the paperback. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Didn't know where else to post it, I thought this post about Glenn Miller would have generated more interest.


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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 02, 2019 11:46 pm 
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This is certainly the most correct forum to post information about a musician, but probably one of the least read.

The Clubhouse would have been the other option, and would have probably generated more responses.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Wed 06, 2019 7:26 pm 
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I wonder if Cussler has been involved as much on missing ships/planes as earlier? I've read both of his books on that topic.
RW

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 16, 2019 2:37 pm 
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It was in the Clubhouse but was promptly locked due to non-compliance with forum rules :roll: .

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 16, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Glenn Miller had more hit singles than Elvis or the Beatles. Mind you, in his time, every 78 record was a 'single'.
His flight was delayed by fog for several days, until his commanding officer declared they had to go for Glenn to make a scheduled performance for troops in France, December 1944.
A bombing mission was aborted due to fog on that same day, and orders were to drop the bombs in a 10 mile radius no-fly zone.
The Norseman pilot was flying without instruments and likely wanting to avoid the no-fly zone. But in the fog, it would have been a challenge. The bombers were at an elevation of 5,000 feet or more, so not likely they would spot the small single engine plane, flying below the fog. But some airmen claimed they spotted a plane going down.

Dorset, where the fisherman snagged a sunken plane, is quite a way West of the assumed flight path, but the flight was not authorized, so they may have flown West to get clear of fog or air traffic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-46863606

This article mentions the icing theory and the book that was written before this latest search began.

http://www.cpr.org/news/story/70-years- ... -be-solved

In any case they say the only parts likely to be left intact would be the engine and metal frame of the fuselage, sunken in the sludge.

More Norseman photos here:
https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit ... -norseman/

These are bush planes, and the icing theory doesn't hold up when you see the conditions these planes fly in every winter.

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Last edited by westcoastjohn on Apr Thu 25, 2019 2:47 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sat 16, 2019 7:53 pm 
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badwaxcaps wrote:
It was in the Clubhouse but was promptly locked due to non-compliance with forum rules.
Not my intention to flaunt the rules, but merely to draw attention to Fred's story, which is interesting.

Here's another story that mentions the sighting of the small plane by airmen on board one of the Lancaster bombers. Written proof in the log book seems to back up the story.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6390 ... _slot=1-sa

Page 2 of this British Airfields book mentions Glenn Miller at Bedford, where the flight originated from, and the 100,000 members of the USAAF stationed in that area.

https://mediafiles.thedms.co.uk/publica ... %20Map.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 17, 2019 1:53 am 
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The International Group for Historical Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR):
This website describes the search for Glenn Miller's lost plane in greater detail. The speculation there is that maybe they had flown overland to make a western crossing, that could place the wreckage in the area where the fisherman snagged it off Portland Bill. But a plane spotter reported a Norseman on an ESE bearing, so heading for the more central crossing.

http://tighar.org/Projects/GlennMiller/ ... ler_5.html

You can read the full story of the flight and disappearance on this website, 5 pages of text and pictures.
Here they say that Glenn boarded the plane voluntarily, altho his commanding officer was also on the plane with the pilot, and that the flight was not authorized to continue past Twinwood airstrip, where they were picked up with the engine kept idling. The pilot did not have authorization because he had not completed his training for instruments.
Glenn was going to Paris to prepare for the arrival of the band, because the fellow that usually did this work had become drunk and disorderly before a previous engagement. David Niven was in charge and asked Glenn to come over instead.

A small group of spy planes made the trip that same day, flying low with an amphibious escort. They reported bombs dropping into the sea from the aborted bombing mission.

It was 3 days later, when the band arrived in Paris, that Glenn Miller's plane was finally reported missing.

The researchers feel that the fabric would have rotted away by the time the fisherman raised the wreckage. This casts some doubts on his drawing of the wreck. However, the Norseman website gives the specifications, aluminum sheathing on leading and trailing edges of wings and aluminum on the front and lower surface of the fuselage.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 24, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Thank you west coast John for your input on this subject, I love the Glenn Miller sound and the Swing Era although I wasn't even born yet. Wish Glenn Miller made it though the war and was able to continue his career. The war sure took its toll in the world.


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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Feb Sun 24, 2019 2:33 pm 
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Its sound like your a very smart guy westcoastjohn, Glenn Millers sax player singer Tex ( Gorden Beneke) I met one time here in Dallas back in late 80,s, he wasn't in very good shape. He had passed not long after. I still love to watch from time to time the Glenn Miller story with Jimmy Stewart and June Allison.


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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Apr Fri 19, 2019 8:47 pm 
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One thing Miller did that not very many bandleaders did was have recordings made of most of his broadcast performances, and kept them. Many leaders considered such recordings to be of no value after hearing them a couple of times. A lot of the material was put on tape during the 1950's by RCA Victor and is one of the largest live performance archives from the big band era. Their successors still offer CD sets of the releases from the '50s.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Apr Sat 20, 2019 4:27 am 
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Just an amusing anecdote to some of these 'best of' CDs. I've got one that has this version of Bugle Call Rag on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0HwjCRGclM

Only problem is, that's Benny Goodman!

THIS is the Glenn Miller version of Bugle Call Rag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsNu2tvu2aI


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 Post subject: Glenn Miller Noresman Airplane wreckage located
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 9:59 pm 
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If you click Edit you can see that I enclosed it in the youtube markers and removed the s from https. I also removed some extra parameters concerning the YouTube app.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Apr Wed 24, 2019 11:54 pm 
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I think most people know this tune, In The Mood.

This version has the live film footage, while another version shows Jimmy Stewart in a screen shot for the movie, but has better audio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPXwkWVEIIw

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 12:19 am 
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The period films Orchestra Wives and Sun Valley Serenade Had some decent audio quality and some performances were in stereo. 20th Century Fox marketed a selection of the recordings from the soundtracks on LP.
There is a small label CD that has a few of these recordings, and if you like their works, the CD is worth getting. It really sounds good.

https://www.amazon.com/True-Stereo-Glen ... ay&sr=8-19

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 Post subject: Re: Glenn Miller Noresman Airplane wreckage located
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 1:39 pm 
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bennierouro wrote:
If you click Edit you can see that I enclosed it in the youtube markers and removed the s from https. I also removed some extra parameters concerning the YouTube app.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please try to explain.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: Apr Thu 25, 2019 3:30 pm 
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19&41 wrote:
The period films Orchestra Wives and Sun Valley Serenade Had some decent audio quality and some performances were in stereo. 20th Century Fox marketed a selection of the recordings from the soundtracks on LP.
There is a small label CD that has a few of these recordings, and if you like their works, the CD is worth getting. It really sounds good.

https://www.amazon.com/True-Stereo-Glen ... ay&sr=8-19


Reading about this CD and the comments, this guy Chris Brierly says:
"If you like Glenn Miller or are into early attempts at real HiFi stereo, then this CD is a must, however it only has a few stereo tracks, (4?) the rest are mono.
If you just want decent quality sounding Glenn Miller the Gerard Parker reprocessed stereo CD is a better option, as it has more "stereo" tracks, ironically it actually sounds better, the late Parker was an audio genius.
There is quite a lot of early stereo available on CD these days, the original multi track sound recordings on MGM films is the usual source, starting around 1939.

Searching on amazon using the words swing stereo, miller, dorsey, will keep you busy for quite a while, also see my other reviews, here or on amazon.co.uk, as I have reviewed a lot of early stereo including pop/rock music."

So yes, having the recordings on multi-track tape makes it all possible.

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 Post subject: Re: (Glenn Miller) Noresman Airplane wreckage located?
PostPosted: May Tue 21, 2019 5:48 am 
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The Norseman Bushplane pages I had been browsing earlier are no longer available. So no more technical details from there.
The group most likely to search for the sunken wreck are not enthusiastic, from what I read, and are disputing the fisherman's claim, based on his drawing of what he remembers the wreck looking like when it was hanging from his boom.
He drew a 3-blade prop, and the general opinion is that the wartime Norsemans had a 2-blade prop, while civilian post-war versions have the 3 bladed props.
It is reasonable that the fisherman has forgotten details and in trying to depict what he saw had to rely on pictures of other planes. Doesn't make his story untrue. But the search will cost and the funding is not coming together. Might still come about, maybe needs to be produced as a History Channel series. but first they'll probably search for Amelia Earhart.

Some links here:

https://www.dennismspragg.com/2019/02/1 ... ers-plane/

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/g ... AD9Y5Oc2_E

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/ ... -aviations

Anyhow, this old picture shows the 3-blade prop on a military Norseman, so the speculation about the prop is just hot air, IMO.


Attachments:
Norseman U-64 4705x1.jpg
Norseman U-64 4705x1.jpg [ 173.33 KiB | Viewed 1033 times ]

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