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 Post subject: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 9:07 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
I found in the bay a 200cd, including the manual and 2xnos 6SH7, 2xnos 6AU5GT.
It looks fine except the handle on top is missing. So I need a picture from that for rebuild.

200cd is the old + very glowing , I think around 1960 build. A very early hp
so they have written the calibration requires a 523B :mrgreen:

(looking for 523B..)

greetings
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 8234
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Martin, you seem to want one of every piece of HP gear ever made. I have HUNDREDS of them.... come visit USA OHIO, bring a 53' semi. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
hello Barry,
maybe you can help me. I have a DSO stack from hp, there are 2 units for aquisition (12bit, low bandwith) and a display unit for that, connected with hpib. In the display unit is a problem in the crt deflection driver area, and I have not found any manual.

About 523B: that counter works with 6 lines of 10 gas bulbs, very amazing collectible

Martin


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Oct Sun 15, 2006 12:57 pm
Posts: 7225
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Good morning Martin,

The big pics are of a replacement handle very much like the original. I bought it at a guitar amplifier site as I remember.

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 2:07 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 8234
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Martin, which model is the CRT display? I have a few 141T's, but not sure if any others, but who knows. I haven't inventoried anything really much newer than the mid 1950s

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
hello Barry,
that is a 1980s DSO,

HP 5183 T/U Stack with 2 pcs. of the Aquisition units and the display unit on Top.
Means a 4MHz only Scope, but 12 bits.
The problem is on the board of the display unit.

Pictures, see http://hpmemoryproject.org/wc_pages/wall_c_page_01.htm

I am always restorating anything, that`s my hobby :wink:
Actually I am watching to find a museum who want to get my ONYX2 computer,
the old graphics monster is now heathy but here is not enough m² for that, only for some scopes, BA radios and of coarse oscillators :D

The handle for 200CD is black, that`s right? important to know that.
Soving leather, I have experience with that.

here is the bay picture. Good for the weekend :wink: it was 28e + postage.
My little scopes community is every year on the makerfaire with testgear oldies, I am in need for some oscillators, so the people can play with the scopes 8)

Attachment:
200cd.JPG
200cd.JPG [ 256.03 KiB | Viewed 1474 times ]


greetings
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 10, 2012 8:39 am
Posts: 1670
One of my oscillators will never have the handle problem. It's the rack mount version. Eats up too much bench space.

I really should have a garage sale.


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 19, 2019 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 30, 2016 7:35 pm
Posts: 8234
Location: Sunbury, Ohio 43074
Bob I’m thinking of partnering up wit any nearby ham, radio, and collector clubs and maybe the ETF museum and trying to clear out a bunch of stuff

I need another 2 or 3 months of sorting first. <sigh> Hopefully less. I’m trying to devote a couple of hours per day right now

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 20, 2019 12:03 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 08, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 10879
Location: Ohio 45177
I guess they were black. I picked one up off a workbench riser once and the apparently rotted handle split in half. Thus the unit landed on the floor. However being a rather durable unit, I straightened out the chassis a bit which saw the effects of the weight of the transformer. It still worked fine.

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 20, 2019 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
that works :D
except the amplitude pot.

Full left there is a signal.
more right, becomes smaller up to zero,
again more right, becomes more + more
full right, large signal.

Attachment:
7a.jpg
7a.jpg [ 347.57 KiB | Viewed 1377 times ]


Attachment:
11a.jpg
11a.jpg [ 347.57 KiB | Viewed 1377 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 20, 2019 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Jan Tue 10, 2012 8:39 am
Posts: 1670
Bad control, or missing ground lead on one end. There should be no signal at the CCW position.


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 20, 2019 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Jun Sun 23, 2013 9:03 pm
Posts: 483
Location: Canandaigua, NY
I sold off the various 200CD units I've had, save for one. I kept a near mint 200CDR with a light color front panel. Too pretty to sell.


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 20, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 5936
Location: Norfolk, VA
Check the resistors on the output transformers first - they are on the range switch (A1) and usually are fine, and the attenuator pots are bad.

The dual pot attenuator is a common failure item - 2 counter rotation pots, original part number 200CD-34. The updated HP part number is 2100-0113, and includes the two 620 ohm resistors.

Attachment:
2100-0113.jpg
2100-0113.jpg [ 109.83 KiB | Viewed 1371 times ]


Check each pot section - one should be 250K, the other 25K. Combined with the external resistors, they form a constant impedance attenuator of 600 ohms impedance.

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Thu 21, 2019 1:48 am 
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Joined: Jun Wed 08, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 10879
Location: Ohio 45177
Some of the early 200's had a single pot between the oscillator and amplifier, as I recall. The later ones have a transformer output with a 600 ohm impedance and a dual pot attenuation control that is designed to maintain that impedance. I tried to make one once with off the shelf pots ganged together but was unsuccessful. The resistance curve in one or both is an odd thing, maybe anti-logarithmic or something? That is a common failure and a reason why many of these are sold cheaply, as it is a difficult and costly part to obtain. There is always a chance that cleaning the pots internally and applying proper lubrication may restore function. I had some success with that but not always. IF the pots are intermittent or noisy, the output fluctuates and is not very good to use. Sometimes they are for sale on ebay.

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Thu 21, 2019 3:24 am 
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Joined: Sep Tue 30, 2014 6:08 am
Posts: 5936
Location: Norfolk, VA
wazz wrote:
Some of the early 200's had a single pot between the oscillator and amplifier, as I recall. The later ones have a transformer output with a 600 ohm impedance and a dual pot attenuation control that is designed to maintain that impedance. I tried to make one once with off the shelf pots ganged together but was unsuccessful. The resistance curve in one or both is an odd thing, maybe anti-logarithmic or something? That is a common failure and a reason why many of these are sold cheaply, as it is a difficult and costly part to obtain. There is always a chance that cleaning the pots internally and applying proper lubrication may restore function. I had some success with that but not always. IF the pots are intermittent or noisy, the output fluctuates and is not very good to use. Sometimes they are for sale on ebay.


To salvage a 200CD with a bad attenuator, most labs paired them with an HP 350B/C/D attenuator, along with a Weinschel variable 0-3dB to achieve the same.

The 2100-0113 are anti-rotation (one pot increases in value while the other decreases) pots with only the wiper and one end present (two terminals). The range switch provides the low end (ground, if you can call it that), so that's where to start if you can't attenuate to zero. The resistors on the range switch R3X and R4X values will take some back EMF, but the pots are a bit more susceptible if near one end or the other.

The two pots I pictured are spares I got in a lot on eBay in 2006/7 - an eBay saved search paid off. :)

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"Capacitor Cosmetologist since 1979"
USN Retired 1984-2006 (Avionics/Cal)


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Thu 21, 2019 9:05 am 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
hello friends,
thank you for the input, bob found it.
It was a "not enough coffee in the head" mistake by myself:
200cd needs a bridge between black and the center red plug, there was no :oops:
it works.
I have done some cal, the accuracy of the large frequency scale knob is amazing !
The old apparatus is full in spec.
To do: de spare handle.

Martin


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Thu 21, 2019 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 08, 2011 2:33 am
Posts: 10879
Location: Ohio 45177
When I was working 200CD were cheap, used, and the ones that had bad pots ended up in the salvage cage with all the stored test equipment and broken stuff. They ended up donating tubes, etc. to the other ones.

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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 26, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
wazz wrote:
They ended up donating tubes, etc. to the other ones.


Extremly rare to become a donation of spare parts and tubes, to me only one time.
I picked up 3 SCopes in a german institute of research and the have given me all spare parts what was there, it was better then christmas and eastern in one day.. bulk packs of CV2493 , Tek spare sparts, a lot. So some of my Tekscopes here have this british tubes inside, they work perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Tue 26, 2019 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Nov Sun 07, 2010 7:16 pm
Posts: 787
Location: Manchester, MI
If you haven't seen it, read Chap 7 from Jim WiIliams Analog Circuit Design, the section entitled "Max Wien, Mr Hewlett, and a Rainy Sunday Afternoon."

http://www.introni.it/pdf/Williams%2007 ... apters.pdf

It will give you a new appreciation for what those pilot lamps are doing.

Later on, I also liked "The Importance of Fixing" which I endeavor to follow by always buying broken equipment :D


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 Post subject: Re: hp 200cd generator
PostPosted: Nov Wed 27, 2019 12:53 pm 
Member

Joined: Nov Wed 15, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 1416
Location: germany
hello Paul,
they wor as a kind of PTC resistor.
When you open a Tek305DMM (the DMM board) you will find a bulb solded in the input stage.
I have a Wandel+Goltermann WS6 AC stabilizer, it works with tubes. There is a bulb also inside, a custom made lamp from Radium, the named it "technischer Kaltleiter" = technical PTC resistor.
The Krohn-Hite 4100 sine oscillator control the gain with a opto coupler what is made with a bulb and a LDR.
The bulb must be selected to work allready..

Martin


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