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 Post subject: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2019 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
I have used this phonograph in my workshop for years after refreshing the amp. The turntable finally began to stall during the change cycle. I did some cleaning and lubrication and cleaned the drive surfaces of both idler wheel tires and the driven surface of the turntable. Both tires were still pliable but very dirty. Then I did a stupid thing. I started the mechanism to try playing a record, forgetting I had secured the tonearm, on it's post, while performing the other cleaning, lubrication chores. A sort of loud loud pop as the tonearm resisted the effort to move it from the post I had secured it to.

It now has lost its ability to change records automatically. The reject knob does not have any effect on the mechanism at all. I am a little hesitant to take the changer mechanism apart, looks kind of complex for me, and I do not see any obvious broken or bent pieces (probably would not know what to look for anyway). I wondered if anyone had any ideas to correct whatever damage I have done. Thank You All As Always!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Thu 12, 2019 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2031
Location: 77001
juke47 wrote:
I started the mechanism to try playing a record, forgetting I had secured the tonearm, on it's post, while performing the other cleaning, lubrication chores. A sort of loud loud pop as the tonearm resisted the effort to move it from the post I had secured it to.
It now has lost its ability to change records automatically. The reject knob does not have any effect on the mechanism at all. I wondered if anyone had any ideas to correct whatever damage I have done. Thank You All As Always!

Please post some photos of the record changer.

There may not be any severe damage, but there may be bent
parts such as the trip link. It will require some dis-assembly in that case.

We need to see the changer, though, to see who made it, for further evaluation.
Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2019 11:19 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
Here are several pictures of the turntable.


Attachments:
CIMG2899.JPG
CIMG2899.JPG [ 791.12 KiB | Viewed 1367 times ]
CIMG2900.JPG
CIMG2900.JPG [ 795.92 KiB | Viewed 1367 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2019 3:32 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2031
Location: 77001
So you have a Voice of Music 1200 series changer.
They are tough units. Let's see if you can re-set
the change cycle.

Try this:

1. Remove platter from record changer.
Should be a C-clip on the spindle holding it.

If the platter does not want to come off rather
easily, release it back down onto its bearings,
stop and go to #2.

2. Make sure tone-arm is free from its rest.

3. Tilt the changer up about 45 degrees from table surface.
Turn the toothed cycle gear with your hand
gently CLOCKWISE as viewed from the bottom.

It will have some resistance normally due to the spring
you see attached to the cycle gear.
You can remove the spring temporarily, if you wish.

If the platter is still on, you'll feel the weight of the
platter, also.

If it comes to a firm stop point, STOP and
go no further.


3.a If you can turn gear w/out it locking, turn it
until the tonearm goes across
the platter and returns to its rest.

4. If locked-up, some dis-assembly will be needed.
Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Jul Mon 26, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 29054
Location: Annapolis, MD
I've had more than one case where the shaft of the main actuation wheel stops moving due to dried grease---then the wheel starts turning at the riveted joint. The fix requires significant disassembly---something I recommend regardless of symptoms.

_________________
-Mark
"Voltage is fun to watch, but it's the CURRENT that does the work."


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Fri 13, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
Thank You for such great help! I did remove the turntable without any problem. I did operate the tooth gear by hand for several cycles after going through the first cycle. As expected it had some resistance along the way (I did not remove the spring) so I expected it would require a bit more effort but it did not seem to come to a firm stop point. When the cycle got far enough it seemed like the spring actually was a significant aid to turning the toothed gear.

I placed the turntable on some wood blocks, replaced the turntable, used an old LP album record and watched while I turned the gear to make a complete cycle. The tonearm seemed to position itself correctly for start of record and when I continued to turn the toothed gear the tone arm returned to the rest post.

I was getting excited now so I put the changer mechanism into the cabinet and plugged the 4 prong AC plug in to it female socket. I loaded an LP record onto the spindle and operated the reject knob to start the cycle but nothing happened. After several tries it appears the entire cycle probably works but won't start. I suppose I should have added a couple records to the spindle and waited to see if they would cycle as they should once I had it started. I can try that if it helps?

I appreciate your assistance and knowledge very much. Thank You!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2019 1:02 am 
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Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2031
Location: 77001
juke47 wrote:
I put the changer mechanism into the cabinet and plugged the 4 prong AC plug in to it female socket. I loaded an LP record onto the spindle and operated the reject knob to start the cycle but nothing happened. After several tries it appears the entire cycle probably works but won't start. I suppose I should have added a couple records to the spindle and waited to see if they would cycle as they should once I had it started. I can try that if it helps?
I appreciate your assistance and knowledge very much. Thank You!

What may have occurred is that the trip link lever is not activated.
This could be due to a bent aluminum trip link or not.
Try this:

1. Set up the changer on blocks with the AC power to motor.
With platter off, turn switch to On position & make sure motor is turning.
If motor good, turn off motor, replace platter.

2. Load a record onto spindle, then turn the On/Off/Rej knob to Rej.

3. Carefully reach under the changer and again give the
toothed gear wheel about 1/8 th of a turn clockwise.

4. The idler wheel should engage the platter and start the
record change cycle.

Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2019 12:46 pm 
Member

Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
The mechanism performed exactly as you predicted. With AC to the motor it runs fine. I set the changer back in the cabinet. I loaded a couple of LP albums and I tried the reject knob again but it had no effect. I gave the tooth gear a little help and it dropped the first record and would play it. I moved the tonearm to the record trip grooves but it would not start the cycle (move tonearm to rest point and drop the second record) until I gave the toothed gear a bit of a turn. It properly dropped the second record and began to play it.

Just to be sure I have not been completely confusing the reject knob will not initiate the record play cycle. It must be started with turning the tooth gear a small amount. At the end of the record the tonearm will not return to the rest post without, again, turning the tooth gear to start the cycle. When the tonearm does return to the rest spot (out of the way for the next record to drop) the next record drops and will play, Reject knob has no effect in any portion of the cycle. Thank You!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2019 4:11 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2031
Location: 77001
juke47 wrote:
Just to be sure I have not been completely confusing the reject knob will not initiate the record play cycle.
It must be started with turning the tooth gear a small amount.
At the end of the record the tonearm will not return to the rest post without,
again, turning the tooth gear to start the cycle.
When the tonearm does return to the rest spot (out of the way for the next record to drop)
the next record drops and will play, Reject knob has no effect in any portion of the cycle.
Thank You!

1. At this point, someone will need to take the changer apart
for diagnosis.

2. The changer appears to never have been cleaned since
manufacture. That must happen.

Your symptoms can very much be due to dried/epoxied grease
stopping parts from moving correctly for the record change cycle.

3. If you need help, post your general area and see if an ARF member
here can assist.

4. If you want to try cleaning it yourself, I will post Ed's great
restoration of exactly your Zenith branded V-M changer.

Hotwax


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sat 14, 2019 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Feb Wed 04, 2015 12:26 am
Posts: 1319
HW is right,

The trip lever on this is buried deep in the mechanism, and all old grease much be cleaned out, these changers will not operate if this isnt done.

And the old grease problem is throughout the mechanism.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sun 15, 2019 11:29 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
We'll see if I can take the mechanism apart and do the cleaning lubing and reassemble it. It looks rather challenging! Since it was working fine before my careless error of starting a record playing while the tonearm was securely fastened to the tonearm rest post there must be a bent or damaged part as well as the old gummy lubricant residuals. ED's video would likely be a big help! Thank You!

I did find a two part video, about 35 minutes long, on the internet which will be a really big help too. I will see what happens! I'll also get some pictures to assist me in reassembly. I really do appreciate everyone's assistance, thoughts and information. We'll see what happens. I suppose the best thing is, I can't make it worse. The video Link for the YouTube video, I found, is below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-HqO_mOdac

I have a MP3 player set up in my shop with a small Radio shack amplifier, it is so nice to have music but Somehow I still prefer those old LP record albums that I've been playing for years. I have never considered using the MP3 player to provide a signal to the record player tube amp. I'm sure I can get into more trouble doing that but it would be kind of nice if possible and necessary. Thanks Everyone for your help and suggestions! I hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas and a safe, prosperous New Year!


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sun 15, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Jul Mon 26, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 29054
Location: Annapolis, MD
Having learned radio servicing in part from my brief career as a motorcycle mechanic**, I have a love-hate relationship with record changers.....There are all these little parts to keep track of and a leftover washer or spring is usually not a good sign.....:)

You need a system to keep track of the parts---as a minimum, keep fasteners with the parts they go with. But, what I find most important is the order of assembly. One thing that has worked for me is pictures taken in order: In the limit, take a closeup of each component before it is removed.

Another "gotcha" is that some things get lubricated and others do NOT. As you put things together, you have to have enough understanding of how things are supposed to work so you know where NOT to lube. The best example is the friction link between tone arm and the reject triggering mechanism.


**Think I'm kidding??--This was 1963 - 64, and I worked mostly on British bikes from late 40s to late 50s. For certain parts, the choices typically included: waiting 6-8 weeks to order from England, harvesting from another bike, or MAKING the part. My speciality was the latter

_________________
-Mark
"Voltage is fun to watch, but it's the CURRENT that does the work."


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Sun 15, 2019 3:31 pm 
Member

Joined: Jan Wed 16, 2013 12:04 am
Posts: 2031
Location: 77001
juke47 wrote:
We'll see if I can take the mechanism apart and do the cleaning lubing and reassemble it. It looks rather challenging! Since it was working fine before my careless error of starting a record playing while the tonearm was securely fastened to the tonearm rest post there must be a bent or damaged part as well as the old gummy lubricant residuals. ED's video would likely be a big help! Thank You!

I did find a two part video, about 35 minutes long, on the internet which will be a really big help too.
Thanks Everyone for your help and suggestions! I hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas and a safe, prosperous New Year!

Mark's advice on organizing your dis-assembly process is essential.

Here is Ed's topic at this forum. There are two pages (forum pages) to it.
You won't do such an absolutely complete restoration, but since it is
a static presentation, it will be easier to use at times than a video.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=186294&hilit=restoration+zenith

That video you posted will be helpful, although the V-M changer featured does
have several design changes from your V-M.

I recommend you devote plenty of reading and viewing time to
start familiarizing yourself with the record changer.

When you're ready to start taking the changer apart, come back, and
we will start guiding you. There are some things you'll need to be
aware of.
One example regards the shut-off lever spring and the
10 inch record selector spring. They are not interchangeable due
to differences in tension. And as I remember, they are different colors,
so you'll know which is which.

Happy holidays to all,
Hotwax

P.S. We will send you the V-M 1200 service pages, when you're ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Zenith 4 Speed Record Changer Phono Model 5B23
PostPosted: Dec Mon 16, 2019 10:46 am 
Member

Joined: Sep Sat 05, 2009 9:45 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Sun City, Arizona 85373
I will study and read all of this information! I admit that I am really intimidated by the complexity of it all and the number of parts that are in such a small machine! I will continue to study the information and photos. I do have my camera ready to take pictures as I go. I appreciate the effort people have made to assist! I'll need to get an order into Gary. I was wondering about lubrication, now I know. Thank You!


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