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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sat 04, 2020 1:35 am 
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Cleaned tube sockets tonight. I now get a whistling tone coming out of the speaker, briefly, when I turn up the filament voltage on the rheostat. First time anything came out of the speaker.



"With the leads still off, go to the connection on the plate side of the transformer to the plate pin of the detector socket adapter. GOOD is a very low resistance, maybe 2-5 ohms." (6.5 ohms)

"Now measure from the B+ to the B+ lead that connects to the 1st. audio transformer. GOOD is low resistance 2-5 ohms." (3 ohms)

"Oh, oh, That .0008 bypass cap could be shorted." (Checks open, no leakage)

Chas - I'll do the rest of the tests tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sat 04, 2020 1:56 am 
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Radiola Grand, the grand test of patience :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sat 04, 2020 2:49 am 
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+1 :(

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Thu 09, 2020 12:58 am 
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I've gone through everything I can think of several times. I still pick up one station very weakly through the headphones and moving the tuning cap, tickler and vernier makes no difference. I think the problem is in the detector circuit, but can't find the problem. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Thu 09, 2020 4:48 pm 
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atwaterkent1 wrote:
Thanks for the info Jeff, I will check that also. I do have 43v going into "H" primary,...


OK but do you have 43v coming out of "H" primary? Then from there it goes through the tickler coils and then to the detector plate.

Do you have 43v at the detector plate?

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Thu 09, 2020 11:41 pm 
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Yes, 43v coming out when checked at tube socket.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Fri 10, 2020 11:34 pm 
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Quote:
Check the connections between the vernier, tuner and tickler, end to end checked 1.97K ohms


Can you explain this? I think there should be no connection between vernier/tuner and tickler.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sat 11, 2020 12:39 am 
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Toss that out Jeff, I forgot to go back and correct that. The tuner/vernier circuit shows continuity and the tickler circuit from the detector plate to H transformer, post 1 also tests good for continuity.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 5:36 pm 
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Maybe try running it as a 1 tube radio. On the H transformer disconnect 2 and then connect phones from that wire to 1. Also try connecting antenna directly to the input wire instead of going through the short/long terminals.

Have you checked the resistance of that 5-section resistor?

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 10:07 pm 
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Brilliant Jeff, stations came in loud and clear and I could tune in several stations. All the tuning controls seem to be working. I'm going to patch in a substitute transformer for the H one, I have a Jefferson lying around that should tell us something when subbed in. The 5 stage resistor (volume control) checks out good.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 10:31 pm 
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Grrrr, I thought the "H" transformer was rewound....

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 10:36 pm 
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It was Chas. I subbed in a 3/1 and 5/1 transformer and neither made any difference. It doesn't look like the transformer is the problem. :( Rewound transformer seems to be fine, checks 450/1800 with no shorting to core, frame or between windings.

Patched 1 and 2 leads back to H transformer and headphones to 3 and 4 and sound is loud and clear.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 10:53 pm 
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OK, good deal. Jump the 2 C battery terminals with a good jumper wire. Measure resistance from 1st audio grid to A- terminal. Don’t tell me continuity, give me a number.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 11:00 pm 
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Also, you could disconnect 2 on K transformer and connect phones to that wire and to 4 to get 1 stage of amplification.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 11:19 pm 
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atwaterkent1 wrote:
It was Chas. I subbed in a 3/1 and 5/1 transformer and neither made any difference. It doesn't look like the transformer is the problem. :( Rewound transformer seems to be fine, checks 450/1800 with no shorting to core, frame or between windings.
Patched 1 and 2 leads back to H transformer and headphones to 3 and 4 and sound is loud and clear.
Grrr, grrr, grrr, I need to understand this correctly...

H was rewound, installed and AF was crap. "H" was removed, a sub put it and set seemed O.K. "H" measures O.K. and was returned to the chassis. Now it is crap again?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion, there is still something wrong or intermittent about the set in and around the "H" transformer circuit area, or there is some sort of technical but unperceived error taking place. < That is "nice" explanation.

I would check the transformer for an intermittent at the terminals, a possible short or leakage to the core. All wires in/out of the transformer and the solder joints. For example, in the radio, some wire can corrode of break down within the insulation and not be detected unless flexed while the ohmmeter attached.

Remember, the radio was designed to have "B" and "C" batteries inside the cabinet. That exposed the interior to sal ammonic fumes, tar sealant does crack and the gases in the cells escape.

Check out the actual wire from the "H" transformer primary, (the plate side), to the tickler, ALL of it, then to the detector plate connection. I do not know what kind of flexible connection is used but some of the braided copper with cotton over-rbraid is know to break and corrode within the braid. The phosphor bronze spring can break and not be noticed. If it is a friction connection to the tickler, "I", would make some sort of flexible wire connection, friction connection are a problem. Check, too, all mechanical/electrical joints, Just to be most through, do the same for the secondary side of "H", trust nothing... Re-check that bypass cap, wiggle the joint... Watch the ohmmeter.

YES USE THE SIMPSON! These joints need a bit of current to be checked properly...

I noticed there is a long wave/shortwave transfer switch. I do not know the mechanics of this, but if the contacts are corroded from from battery fumes, the detector will go open on the grid and cut out...

Check that wavelength switch with the Simpson and burnish the contacts...

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Sun 12, 2020 11:48 pm 
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I agree with Charles, check the solder joints, also check the wires.


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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Mon 13, 2020 12:22 am 
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Chas wrote:
atwaterkent1 wrote:
It was Chas. I subbed in a 3/1 and 5/1 transformer and neither made any difference. It doesn't look like the transformer is the problem. :( Rewound transformer seems to be fine, checks 450/1800 with no shorting to core, frame or between windings.
Patched 1 and 2 leads back to H transformer and headphones to 3 and 4 and sound is loud and clear.
Grrr, grrr, grrr, I need to understand this correctly...

H was rewound, installed and AF was crap. "H" was removed, a sub put it and set seemed O.K. "H" measures O.K. and was returned to the chassis. Now it is crap again?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion, there is still something wrong or intermittent about the set in and around the "H" transformer circuit area, or there is some sort of technical but unperceived error taking place. < That is "nice" explanation.

I would check the transformer for an intermittent at the terminals, a possible short or leakage to the core. All wires in/out of the transformer and the solder joints. For example, in the radio, some wire can corrode of break down within the insulation and not be detected unless flexed while the ohmmeter attached.

Remember, the radio was designed to have "B" and "C" batteries inside the cabinet. That exposed the interior to sal ammonic fumes, tar sealant does crack and the gases in the cells escape.

Check out the actual wire from the "H" transformer primary, (the plate side), to the tickler, ALL of it, then to the detector plate connection. I do not know what kind of flexible connection is used but some of the braided copper with cotton over-rbraid is know to break and corrode within the braid. The phosphor bronze spring can break and not be noticed. If it is a friction connection to the tickler, "I", would make some sort of flexible wire connection, friction connection are a problem. Check, too, all mechanical/electrical joints, Just to be most through, do the same for the secondary side of "H", trust nothing... Re-check that bypass cap, wiggle the joint... Watch the ohmmeter.

YES USE THE SIMPSON! These joints need a bit of current to be checked properly...

I noticed there is a long wave/shortwave transfer switch. I do not know the mechanics of this, but if the contacts are corroded from from battery fumes, the detector will go open on the grid and cut out...

Check that wavelength switch with the Simpson and burnish the contacts...

Chas


"I subbed in a 3/1 and 5/1 transformer and neither made any difference. Rewound transformer seems to be fine, checks 450/1800 with no shorting to core, frame or between windings."
Chas - the rewound transformer passed all tests, I don't believe its the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Mon 13, 2020 12:37 am 
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jrehkopf wrote:
OK, good deal. Jump the 2 C battery terminals with a good jumper wire. Measure resistance from 1st audio grid to A- terminal. Don’t tell me continuity, give me a number.



6.6M Ohms.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Mon 13, 2020 12:48 am 
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jrehkopf wrote:
Also, you could disconnect 2 on K transformer and connect phones to that wire and to 4 to get 1 stage of amplification.


Nothing coming out at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Radiola Grande Restoration
PostPosted: Apr Mon 13, 2020 12:50 am 
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Chas wrote:
atwaterkent1 wrote:
It was Chas. I subbed in a 3/1 and 5/1 transformer and neither made any difference. It doesn't look like the transformer is the problem. :( Rewound transformer seems to be fine, checks 450/1800 with no shorting to core, frame or between windings.
Patched 1 and 2 leads back to H transformer and headphones to 3 and 4 and sound is loud and clear.
Grrr, grrr, grrr, I need to understand this correctly...

H was rewound, installed and AF was crap. "H" was removed, a sub put it and set seemed O.K. "H" measures O.K. and was returned to the chassis. Now it is crap again?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion, there is still something wrong or intermittent about the set in and around the "H" transformer circuit area, or there is some sort of technical but unperceived error taking place. < That is "nice" explanation.

I would check the transformer for an intermittent at the terminals, a possible short or leakage to the core. All wires in/out of the transformer and the solder joints. For example, in the radio, some wire can corrode of break down within the insulation and not be detected unless flexed while the ohmmeter attached.

Remember, the radio was designed to have "B" and "C" batteries inside the cabinet. That exposed the interior to sal ammonic fumes, tar sealant does crack and the gases in the cells escape.

Check out the actual wire from the "H" transformer primary, (the plate side), to the tickler, ALL of it, then to the detector plate connection. I do not know what kind of flexible connection is used but some of the braided copper with cotton over-rbraid is know to break and corrode within the braid. The phosphor bronze spring can break and not be noticed. If it is a friction connection to the tickler, "I", would make some sort of flexible wire connection, friction connection are a problem. Check, too, all mechanical/electrical joints, Just to be most through, do the same for the secondary side of "H", trust nothing... Re-check that bypass cap, wiggle the joint... Watch the ohmmeter.

YES USE THE SIMPSON! These joints need a bit of current to be checked properly...

I noticed there is a long wave/shortwave transfer switch. I do not know the mechanics of this, but if the contacts are corroded from from battery fumes, the detector will go open on the grid and cut out...

Check that wavelength switch with the Simpson and burnish the contacts...

Chas


I will go through it again.

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