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 Post subject: Oil Filled transmitter caps....
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3785
Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
Hi Guys...

I need your opinions on this...

While doing some spring cleaning, I came across about 40 HV caps that I forgot I had. Some have working voltages of 5000 DCV and less while their capacities can range from .01 to 10 mfd. For the most part they look NOS with the original hardware intact. None of them show any evidence of leaking or of being dented.
Question is are they worth the effort to put them up for sale?
I know a few guys here like homebrewing and I was wondering whether they need, or would want these units for their projects.

Ruminations welcome...
Tnx...
...Jim

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 4:23 pm 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
Sales of PCB-containing capacitors were banned in 1979, so you may have to advertise them as historic novelties, with a warning about PCB content.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
I see.
So how would I know if the caps I have would contain PCB's? These all look like they were manufactured before '78.

This dosen't look good for the good guys...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
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Location: On the Left Coast
Jim,
I've been looking for some HV caps for a project.
If the 10uf have a 2000v or above rating I'd be interested.

Sent PM.

Thanks,
John
KB7NRN


Last edited by War Bird Radio on Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
Seems War Bird and I posted the same time!

I have a list I'm making up, if interested, I'll PM you with the particulars...

...Jim

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:03 pm 
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Thanks!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:06 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI USA
Usually each manufacturer had their own trade name for capacitor oil. There's a list somewhere showing which of those various trade names contained PCB's. The link to it has been posted here before, but I can't locate it at the moment. Perhaps someone who saved the information can post it again.

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Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
War Bird...

Check ur PM

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Oct Sat 20, 2007 3:36 am
Posts: 11481
Location: Southern NH, 03076
Im also interested in a list please.

As far as selling that was only for OEM's and their distributors. Used and NOS sales from individuals is still OK and they show up all the time on Ebay, ham forums and at hamfests.

Carl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sat 12, 2008 11:43 pm 
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Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
Carl...

check ur PM

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sun 13, 2008 4:36 pm 
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Location: Mission Viejo, southern California
Jim Koehler wrote:
I see.
So how would I know if the caps I have would contain PCB's? These all look like they were manufactured before '78.

This dosen't look good for the good guys...
As others indicated, look for the brand names. Here are some of them, with the country(ies):

Apirolio Italy
Aroclor United States, United Kingdom, Japan
Asbestol United States
Chlophen Germany
Chlorextol United States
Chlorinol United States
Diaclor United States
DK (Decachloro-diphenyl) Italy
Dykanol United States
Elemex United States
Eucarel United States
Fenclor Italy
Hyvol United States
Inclor Italy
Inerteen United States
Kanechlor Japan
Montar United States
No-Flamol United States
Phenoclor France
Pydraul HY United States (hydraulic fluid)
Pyralene France
Pyranol United States
Pyroclor United States
Saf-T-Kuhl United States
Santotherm FR Japan
Sovol Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
Therminol FR HT United States

Failing that, look for the date - if before 1979, assume PCBs are present and handle accordingly.

In devices which are not sealed, such as transformers and hydraulic systems, the oil can be sampled and tested.

I think it was a shame that the big transformers at WLW were drained of their PCB oil, as they probably dried out and would now have to be rebuilt (of course, I don't know how it could ever be powered-up, except into a dummy load, or under some very special exemption).

I also found it interesting that a study of the workers at one of GE's large plants which used PCBs found lower rates of cancer amongst the workers. There are PCB-exposure diseases, resulting from the chlorine in the PCBs (Poly Chlorinated BiPheynols).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Sun 13, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1080
Location: Florence, Al. U.S.A.
They most likely contain mineral oil, PCB oil was a coolant.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 12:01 am 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
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Location: Santa Rosa, CA
It's not likely that they contain mineral oil.

GE definitely built caps with Pyranol.

Another one to add to the list of bad stuff is: Askarel

Rich


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 12:05 am 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 10622
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
From the state of California site:

* How can I tell whether a piece of equipment contains PCBs?

Check for a manufacturer's label, which may give the date of manufacture and the trade name of the fluid. Some trade names that may refer to PCBs include Aroclor, Askarel, Eucarel, Pyranol, Dykanol, Clorphen, Clorinol, Chlorextol, Diaclor, Hyvol, Asbestol, Inerteen, Elemex, Saf-T-Kuhl, No-Flanol, Nepolin, EEC-18, and others. Equipment manufactured after 1979 usually does not contain PCBs. Most pre-1979 capacitors do contain PCBs, while many pre-1979 transformers do not. Transformers within buildings or vaults are more likely to contain PCBs. New equipment should be labeled "No PCBs." PCBs are clear, amber-colored, or dark oily liquids. They may have a faint smell like motor oil, and some contain chlorobenzenes which make them smell like mothballs. Fluorescent light ballasts may contain about an ounce of PCBs; a utility pole capacitor or transformer may contain much more. Usually what leaks from a burned-out light ballast is not PCBs but a black tarry material that is used to muffle noise from the capacitor. However, it is safest to assume that anything that leaks from a transformer, capacitor, or light ballast contains PCBs, unless there is a "No PCBs" label on the equipment.


Rich

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/pcbs.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 12:32 am 
Silent Key

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 20548
Location: Sandpoint, IDAHO 83864
I don't know why, but I am a bit more paranoid about PCB's than I am of asbestos. About 25 years ago I was in the process of building another amplifier that would have been my last amp I would ever have to build. Of course the tube was a proud 4-1000A/8166 made by Eimac and the air system socket and chimney and a B&W multi-band plate coil and the works. First class all the way.

The power supply was going to be a choke input with a large swinging choke and a pair of 872A mercury vapor rectifiers along with a bank of four GE Pyranol 4uF at 4000 volt capacitors. About that time an article came out in QST about the dangers of the Pyranol capacitors and the PCB's they contained. My capacitors were all NOS units and while I really hated to do it, I decided against using them.

The article made mention of calling your waste disposal company on directions of how to properly dispose of them, and I did. I don't think the guy I talked to on the phone knew anything about PCB's, as he told me to just put them in the garbage can with the rest of the household garbage, and I did.

So somewhere in a landfill, there are some known PCB's that I know of.

By the way, that was a tremendous setback to me as far as building that amplifier went. It never did get built and I forgot all about it right after that. A bitter divorce ensued a short time later and I wound up living here in this trailer house in town and high power is out of the question. Especially since there are no 240 volt outlets available.
Curt

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(Connoisseur of the cold 807) CW forever!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 1:19 am 
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Joined: Oct Sat 20, 2007 3:36 am
Posts: 11481
Location: Southern NH, 03076
And all that worry and waste of good caps for nothing. That was the beginning of the inmates running the asylum in DC with the help of the lawyers and sensationalist media.

I use GE Pyranols in my 2M and 432 amps. I also notice the oldies beeing scooped up at hamfests again as the truth finally leaks out...pun intended.

Carl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 1:22 am 
Silent Key

Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 20548
Location: Sandpoint, IDAHO 83864
Carl- that is one reason I never got excited about building the amp after that episode. Too many bad memories.
Curt

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(Connoisseur of the cold 807) CW forever!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 4:18 am 
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Joined: May Tue 30, 2006 4:46 pm
Posts: 10622
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Back in the late 1970s, we were trying to assess the effects of fluorocarbon cooling liquids on epoxy encapsulated diodes (1N5408).

Not knowing any better, we dipped the diodes, and our fingers, in Askarel.

All I remember is that when you wiped off with a paper towel, your skin was completely dry.... no skin oils or moisture left.

You think that's why I'm going bald? Although I never dipped my head in Askarel.

Rich


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 1080
Location: Florence, Al. U.S.A.
Just in case, I buried every radio I have that contains bathtub capacitors. Wouldn't want a small child chewing into one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 14, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3785
Location: Freeport, LI, New York 11520
Hi Guys...

Thanx for all the input ( no pun intended ) on these caps. I checked through all that I have and it looks like they're not PCB related. But ultimately, it's the buyers decision whether or not to purchase. When I post them, I will refer to this conversation.

Thanx to all...
...Jim[/i]

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