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 Post subject: Help with Hotel Radio Corp Model 6A
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 3:58 am 
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Joined: May Fri 01, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Stratford, CT
Picked this cute little chairside on ebay for $22.
Image
From what I can find out here and elsewhere on the net, there are no schematics to be found.

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Image

Seems like a basic 6-tube radio, but without a schematic, I'm flying blind. I changed the paper caps, but there is a flat, molded paper cap that i'm having trouble identifying. What you can't see in the pic is the back side completely blown off.
Image
According to Phil's Old Radios, the colored dots read just like the round striped caps. With the arrow pointing left to right, the colors are Green Black Orange. If I understand, that would make it .0005 MFD, a value I've never encountered before. Would that be correct? And what's the meaning of the yellow dot in the upper right corner? Tolerance? (+/-40%?)

Just to the right of the cap you can just make out one end of a burned out resistor from pin 1 to pin 5 of the 35Z5 Rectifier. Any idea of the value?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 4:53 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 3549
Location: Seattle WA US
I'd read that green-black-orange as 5 0 000 mmfd or .05mfd. The back blown off is the clue that your cap is one of the infamous micamold caps - a poor quality paper cap molded in a bakelite case like a mica cap.

I suggest replacing with a .05 mfd (or .047 mfd) ceramic cap. If this cap is connected to either side of the ac line - use a line bypass safety-rated cap.

--Chuck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 5:20 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26250
Location: Detroit, MI USA
I have a hand-drawn schematic for one version of the Hotel Radio model 6A, which I just emailed to you. They were built here in Detroit and apparently no schematics were ever published in Rider or Sams.

In fact, it is possible that I might have posted a .jpg version of it here in the Photo Gallery at one time.

There are two versions of the 6A, one was coin operated, and the other one is set up to play for free and has no timer or coin mechanism. The main difference between the two is the inclusion of those parts and a mercury tilt switch to cut off power if the radio is not upright.

There is a resistor from pin 2 of the 35Z5 to pin 5, 100Ω which is in parallel with the dial lamp.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 6:59 am 
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Joined: Aug Thu 27, 2009 7:47 am
Posts: 2666
Location: Seattle 98125
Mr. Detrola wrote:
I have a hand-drawn schematic for one version of the Hotel Radio model 6A, which I just emailed to you. They were built here in Detroit and apparently no schematics were ever published in Rider or Sams.

In fact, it is possible that I might have posted a .jpg version of it here in the Photo Gallery at one time.

There are two versions of the 6A, one was coin operated, and the other one is set up to play for free and has no timer or coin mechanism. The main difference between the two is the inclusion of those parts and a mercury tilt switch to cut off power if the radio is not upright.

There is a resistor from pin 2 of the 35Z5 to pin 5, 100Ω which is in parallel with the dial lamp.


Does the Forum have a file library or anything? Seems like something like that would be extremely useful to share with a wide audience.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Joined: May Fri 01, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Stratford, CT
Thanks, Dennis!

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-Cameron
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26250
Location: Detroit, MI USA
You can also use the Detrola 576 schematic to service these, and that one is available online in Rider and Beitman.

The two radios were obviously designed by the same engineer, even though they were two separate companies located several miles apart. Some former Detrola employees did go work at Hotel Radio when they started up.

The only very minor difference in the 6A schematic compared to the Detrola 576 is that the hotel radio has the added 100Ω resistor across the dial lamp, and a .01 cap across the output transformer primary. Other than that, they are part for part the same circuit, although the chassis layout is different, and some versions of the hotel radio have the coin mechanism and timer added between the line cord and the AC input to the radio circuitry.

Most of the radios sold by the Hotel Radio Co. had the Frawley brand name on a decal. The rest of them carried the name of the hotel they were sold to.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Oct Wed 14, 2009 6:36 am
Posts: 5835
Location: New York USA
With a burned 100 ohm resistor, it is a sure bet that shorted electrolytic capacitors burned out the 35Z5 and pilot light as well as the resistor.
The Detrola 576 schematic is on Nostalgiaair http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/079/M0004079.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Mon 11, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 9828
Location: Middle Tennessee,USA 37174
Hi Cameron,

Dennis sent me the hand drawn diagram a while back, and it was a great help. Here is a link to that diagram.

http://antiqueradios.com/gallery/d/1025 ... ematic.jpg



The model I have is the off-white painted over the cabinet. The paint didn't dry properly, and I think I will strip it off and finish it as yours is.

On many of the sets, there was a decal with the Frawley name on it.
I will post an image Dennis sent me from another Frawley set, in case you want to make one. They were located right below the center of the dial, and right above the center os the speaker opening.

Image

Take care,
Gary.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Tue 12, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Joined: May Fri 01, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Stratford, CT
Mr. Detrola wrote:
There is a resistor from pin 2 of the 35Z5 to pin 5, 100Ω which is in parallel with the dial lamp.


Would a standard 1/2 watt resistor work, or do I need something more robust (1w)?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan Tue 12, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Posts: 26250
Location: Detroit, MI USA
The 1 watt would be more desirable but 1/2 watt was used originally.

Either one would burn up if the dial lamp and 2-3 filament section of the 35Z5 were both open.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: I have one of these
PostPosted: Apr Sun 04, 2010 7:54 pm 
Silent Key

Joined: Nov Fri 28, 2008 4:45 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Near Fargo North Dakota USA
It was in the hotel Androy in Superior WI. The company that made these is still in business and someone here told me the name whImageich I have forgotten.


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 Post subject: Re: I have one of these
PostPosted: Apr Sun 04, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Posts: 9828
Location: Middle Tennessee,USA 37174
deltysdal wrote:
It was in the hotel Androy in Superior WI. The company that made these is still in business and someone here told me the name which I have forgotten.

Hi,
That is the color mine was originally. Do you have the Frawley decal above the speaker cutout? The grillecloth does look oiriginal too.

I am missing small metal plates designating VOL Tuning, etc. but I have some sharp photos of what they look like in case I want to recreate my own.

I like the wood finish on the OP's set, but I still haven't decided on what treatment I will give this one.
I already tried the whitish color but the paint did not fully cure. (Supplier forgot to add an air dryer to the mix :evil: )

If only these sets can talk, I'll bet they'd have some wild stories to tell. :oops:

I think you will like your set.



ADDED>>
Here is a photo from the net, showing how th original light color cabinet was. This is the effect I will be going for.
(Thinking) Offwhite, then maybe a skimcoat of grain filler to show the grain. A coat of clear perhaps....
Clearly, you can see the Frawley label on this one.

Image


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 Post subject: Label
PostPosted: Apr Sun 04, 2010 11:12 pm 
Silent Key

Joined: Nov Fri 28, 2008 4:45 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Near Fargo North Dakota USA
Mine merely says Hotel Radio Co. Detroit, Michigan. I posted a photo of this about a year ago and someone told me the name of the current company in Florida. But I forgot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Mon 05, 2010 12:25 am 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26250
Location: Detroit, MI USA
http://www.tel-tron.com/about.php

Tel-Tron is the apparent survivor of the Hotel Radio organization, at least they claim to have designed and manufactured the radios and that is very likely to be correct.

However, there is still some discrepancy between what was published in trade magazines back in the post-WW2 years, advertising by the Hotel Radio Corporation, and interviews with people who were there and should have the correct recollection of what actually took place. It's way too late now to try to reconstruct the actual sequence of events.

J. Edward Frawley was the president of the Hotel Radio Corp, that's how his name got onto the radios. They also bought TV's from other manufacturers, notably Arvin and Tele-King, fitted them with coin boxes, slapped on the Frawley decals, and sold them to agents who would place them in hotels and do the maintenance. Mr. Dawson of Tel-Tron who is stated to be the designer and manufacturer of the chairside model 6A radios on their website is never mentioned in any of the trade magazine articles about the Hotel Radio Corp, only Frawley and a few others are mentioned.

In mid-1949 the Hotel Radio Corp. claimed to have 16,500 radios on lease through their agents in various high-end hotels across the country.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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 Post subject: Re: Label
PostPosted: Apr Tue 06, 2010 7:26 am 
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Location: Middle Tennessee,USA 37174
deltysdal wrote:
Mine merely says Hotel Radio Co. Detroit, Michigan. I posted a photo of this about a year ago and someone told me the name of the current company in Florida. But I forgot.

deltysdal wrote:
Mine merely says Hotel Radio Co. Detroit, Michigan. I posted a photo of this about a year ago and someone told me the name of the current company in Florida. But I forgot.


Hi,
Yes, the metal plate says that, but is there any evidence that a decal was on the spot shown? Since mine was painted over when I got it, there was no saving the label. Someone had already scraped most of it off.
The decal photo I posted was sent to me courtesy of Mr. Detrola. IIRC, it was from a TV, but was the same logo.

Thanks Dennis for the info on Mr. Frawley. You may have told me before, can't remember.
These are a pretty good sounding set, sensitive too.
I have seen some of these with a coil slot delete plate, made for sets that were converted to 'free' operation. I still have the coin mechanism in mine.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Wed 02, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Jun Wed 02, 2010 9:46 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Daytona Beach, Florida
My dad, Herman Dawson, was a founder of Hotel Radio Corporation. I still have a couple of 6A radios and some sales literature.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks, I'll put together as complete a history as I can and post it on this thread.

In the mean time, I am curious about the moderator - Mr. Detrola - inasmuch as the Hotel Radio founders, Herman Dawson and Richard Whan (not sure about the spelling) worked at International Detrola during WWII. Presumably "Mr. Detrola" has some ties there also.

(By the way, the flat "paper" capacitor mentioned in one of the posts was probably a mica dielectric.)

More later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Thu 03, 2010 1:04 am 
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Posts: 8899
Location: Beaver Falls, PA. USA
Those flat molded capacitors were indeed made of paper; they were also used in a lot of other radios, including Zeniths and Scotts , as well as military sets like the BC-312 and BC-348. They are all leaky now.

The "tip-off" is that they are a bit bigger and thicker than the mica capacitors were, and are usually .001 mfd or larger. Micamold did make them in a smaller physical size as well, and I seem to recall that they were rated for less voltage than the bigger size.

Here's a link to a discussion on those capacitors, including an original ad for them... http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtop ... t=micamold

When in doubt, give them a leakage test, or just replace them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Thu 03, 2010 4:02 am 
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Location: Middle Tennessee,USA 37174
N. Rick Dawson wrote:
My dad, Herman Dawson, was a founder of Hotel Radio Corporation. I still have a couple of 6A radios and some sales literature.


Hi Rick, glad to have you here on the forum, as your dad was a part of radio's history. The 6A is a popular radio among coin op radio collectors.

We would like to hear any info, or see any documents on the 6A
I have one of these also. Other company history or photos would be great.

If you do scan any brochures, it would be nice to have them available for download, so we can have some info to go along with our sets.

Take care,
Gary.


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 Post subject: Frawley Hotel Radio
PostPosted: Nov Thu 25, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Nov Thu 25, 2010 10:14 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Clearwater, FL
Hi,

My grandfather was an authorized dealer of the Frawley Hotel Radio's. I have one in good working condition. It just does not have the coin slot feature. I am going to be selling this very soon. Let me know if you are interested and I can email you pictures or videos so you can see it working. I also have a frawley brochure and I think my mom has replacement tubes and chassis.

Thank you,
Brian Leone
352-263-3456


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov Thu 25, 2010 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Jan Thu 01, 1970 1:00 am
Posts: 26250
Location: Detroit, MI USA
We'd love to see some good clear scans of that Frawley brochure, or any other factory literature from the days when these products were new.

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Dennis

Experience is what you gain when the results aren't what you were expecting.


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