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 Post subject: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Mar Mon 31, 2008 10:12 pm 
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Location: Fairfield, New Jersey
I was given a bunch of 78 albums. Some are 10" and some are 12" Looking through the 12" albums I came across some records that are recorded on only one side. Is there a reason that a side was left blank? It seems a waste . Any idea how old these could be? They are classical in nature. Could it be a manufactering mistake? Any help would be most welcome. :? DAN!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Mon 31, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Location: Jonesville, MI
The earliest disc records were single sided.

International Talking Machine began issuing Odeon and some American records in double faced form around 1904.

Here in the 'states, Columbia began issuing all of their popilar records in double-faced form in 1908, effectively forcing Victor to do the same.

The sales staff at Victor strongly objected to this policy of two-faced records, as they felt that they were selling a luxury good, and the double-faced records cheapened the brand. Nonetheless, customers loved the new double faced discs.

Victor issued these double faced records in immense quantites form 1909 on, but their premium-priced lines (Red Seal for high priced classical records, and purple label for premium-priced popular and second-tier classical artists) would remain single-faced until 1921.

the single-sided Red Seal discs weere VERY expensive, ranging in price from$1.25 to $7.50 in 1918.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mar Mon 31, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Location: Calgary Alberta
You might want to take a look at this web site relating to 78s,there are some which are in demand and I believe the ones that are recorded on one side are more collectable. http://www.geocities.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Tue 01, 2008 1:56 am 
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Location: Jonesville, MI
Actually, thegreat majority of single facrd Red Seal and Purple label records are of minimal commercial value.

Exceptions would include many of the purple lable issues by Vaudeville headliners, such as Eddie Morton, George M. Cohan, and Nora Bayes (although Miss Bayes' Blue Label Columbia records, while interesting, are not particularly pricey). In the purple label series, the most common discs, such as those recorded by Harry Lauder and Lucy Marsh are very difficult to sell.

Rxceptions in the Red Seal catagory would include some operatic recordings on the early Monarch and a frw of the "Grand Prize" labes Victor records.

the general run of "Bat wing" Victor and Victrola discs are in the $1.00-$5.00 catagorty, though.

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PostPosted: Apr Tue 01, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Location: Baltimore, MD
To add to what Vitanola said, there are some exceptions to prices of older 78s. Early blues and jazz almost always command a premium, as do some early ethnic and "hillbilly" recordings.

Even though the red seals were more expensive, I swear I think they made an Enrico Caruso record for every human being in the US judging by the number I've seen!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Tue 01, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Location: Jonesville, MI
But, of course, the blues, jazz and hillbilly discs are double-faced.

SOME of the thick (1/4") Edison Diamond Disc records are quite pricey these days, too, but they are generally only the white label records with record numbers above 52,300, or so. These discs were made at the very end of the Edison company's production, and were generally sold in VERY small quantities, and seldom turn up.

The same is true of the jazz, blues and hillbilly records which are today in demand. They were discs that were origianlly offered to a small, specialised market, and were sold in limited numbers.

Note that with premium records, condition is ALL IMPORTANT. The slightest wear or scuff can devalue a record by 50% or more, and most cracked records are practically worthless in any case.

Record sales in the 1920's averaged about 70-80 MILLION discs a year, and in the WWII and post-war period approached 200 MILLION. Most of these records were pressed in vast numbers, and are plentiful even today, in excellent condition. Whilst it is quite possible that you may find a gem amongst the records in your Victrola, cahnces are very good that only one or two records aout of a hundered will hoild any particular collector interest.

Of course, even the common records can be musically interesting, entertaining, and a great deal of fun. Best-selling records, while of no particular commercial value, are usually well worth keeping for their entertainment value. There was a reason for their best-seller status!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Tue 01, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Location: Fairfield, New Jersey
Thanks to all who posted a reply to my post. the single sided discs are red label victrola of a classical nature. There is a price listed on the label of $1.50. I guess depending on the year made it could be cheap or dear to buy. Again thank you all. DAN!!! :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Wed 02, 2008 7:40 pm 
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Location: Jonesville, MI
Rotateing Antenna wrote:
Thanks to all who posted a reply to my post. the single sided discs are red label victrola of a classical nature. There is a price listed on the label of $1.50. I guess depending on the year made it could be cheap or dear to buy. Again thank you all. DAN!!! :D


These records were exceedingly dear, in their day.

The equivilent price in today's dollars would be about $28.00, for tbut three or four minutes of music. Truly a luxury item, and yet these records sold astonishingly well, all things considered.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 03, 2008 5:00 am 
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Location: Ortonville, Michigan
There was mention above about the abundance of Caruso discs. I recall readng that Caruso sold more records for Victor than any other one artist. Victor gave him hs own catalogue number block.

It's sort of comical today, but it seems that EVERYONE who had a phonograph had one Caruso record at least. It appears to have been some sort of status symbol.

And today, if someone is describing the discs that are in the family Victrola, they assure you that there IS a Caruso record among the stuff. Wow!

And 78 RPM single discs today, are ALBUMS; not just single selection recordings,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 03, 2008 5:11 am 
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Hey, I've even seen dealers call records cd's.
An, I remember at least one evilbay dealer describing a record player something like this...

Edison, Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, victrola, record player, grammophone, record player.

Followed by often of the following explanations:
Either, I'm sorry, but, I don't have any cd's to play on this machine.
Or,
I put a cd on, and, the needle slid accross. I think a new needle ought to fix this machine.

Intelligent. Aren't they?? NOT!!! :lol:
Bill Cahill

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 03, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Location: Tampa FL USA
Why is it that every record collector gets these items dumped at their door? I collect "race" jazz and blues 78s only, but friends and relatives who know I collect call and say they have found some "prize" records for me. What they usually arrive with is a box of Carusos, Frank Sinatras, or those oh so common red label columbias...I'm still waiting for the box of Black Patti records to arrive.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Apr Thu 03, 2008 8:37 pm 
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
I don't do many flea markets anymore but years ago, I was in southern New Jersey. A guy had a box of 78s on his table. The top record was an Okeh Electric of Bix Beiderbeck's "In A Mist". He wanted ten bucks for the whole box. I didn't haggle. There was a lot of great stuff in that box.


Another time a friend showed me a box of junk 78s he was given by a relative. In the stack was a thin Edison Lateral by Eva Taylor, one of the few Blues artists that Edison recorded weeks before closing the record business. The one record was worth taking the whole box.

I never turn records down when they are offered.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 2:27 am 
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Mcmurdoguy wrote:
Why is it that every record collector gets these items dumped at their door? I collect "race" jazz and blues 78s only, but friends and relatives who know I collect call and say they have found some "prize" records for me. What they usually arrive with is a box of Carusos, Frank Sinatras, or those oh so common red label columbias...I'm still waiting for the box of Black Patti records to arrive.


I would LOVE all of them..... I have a collection of "18 top hits" 78s and they are gorgeous...... The sound is insane and they are just beautiful!!

I have one record,its about 1/2 inch thick. Looks like it made out of wood or something.. My main player wont play it well but my crosley plays it but LOW VOLUME due to my needle not being BIG ENOUGH to get to the whole groove.....


78s are fascinating!!


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 2:48 am 
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This post must be a record of sorts... Last heard in 2008. Gawd, I was still working that year...

I do find it fascinating that a single side record was as much as $7.50 when the average wage was .35 cent an hour... Having to work more than half the week just to buy a new tune for Saturday night...

I don't collect 78's, what I have was left to me by past relatives, some as an estate residue. Only player is stored in the attic for now.

Chas

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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 5:51 am 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Dude111 wrote:
I have one record,its about 1/2 inch thick. Looks like it made out of wood or something.. My crosley plays it but LOW VOLUME due to my needle not being BIG ENOUGH to get to the whole groove.....
Check and see if it's an Edison Record or an Edison Re-Creation. These fit the description but the reason they play at such a low volume on your Crosley is not necessarily because your needle is too small but because the vertical component of your cartridge is either minimal or nonexistent.

Edison records - like Edison and every other cylinder - are modulated vertically instead of laterally like a normal 78 - so with a normal LP stylus on the Crosley you might get normal-volume sound out of a normal 78 - but sounding fuzzy like a radio station off the frequency.

On an Edison - since they HAVE no lateral modulation - you would get virtually nothing but surface noise as even the stereo versions of any of those re-creation phonographs are set up to play mostly the lateral plane of the record.

If you unplug ONE SET of wires from the cartridge and swap them around so the ground from one and the signal from the other is on the same side you should be able to hear it a lot better since the difference signal (L-R) is the same as the vertical modulation on the disc.

You can do the same thing with the speakers - plug the red lead from one speaker onto one lead of the same speaker and plug the black from the other speaker onto the other lead of the same speaker to get the same results - or plug your stereo headphones in halfway.

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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 10:11 am 
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Location: Buffalo NY
Since this thread "came back to life".. Here's a question - Can anyone give me an idea as to what to look for in 78s? I mean rather specifically? The reason is - the same house I rescued the RCA SHF-2 from has hundreds of 78s in an upstairs bedroom. Think of them on edge, from wall to wall (approximately 16'), 2 rows deep... If there aren't 1000 there, there aren't any. We're going to get back in there soon, because the guy's (he's suffering from dementia in a home) family is going to let the house go into tax foreclosure. I started looking through a few, but without really knowing what to look for, it became mind boggling very quickly. I Know "race" records & "hillbilly" records, but are there any particular labels? colors? Knowing that would make it easier to quick scan...

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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
If
1. that was me
2. the guy was in no position to care
3. his family was just going to throw it all away/let the bank have everything
4. I had/could afford the storage space to put everything til I got a chance to go thru it

I would
1. hire a crew,
2. empty out the house down to the bare walls (and whatever else I could legally get away with e.g. copper pipe etc)
3. put it all in storage
4. start getting things appraised for free from the different trades and
5. make the money myself vs letting the bank have it esp if the family didn't care

1. All the ``leftover'' 78s can go to Nauck's, (you never know if theres' vinyl or pic discs etc)
2. the rest of the other speed records can go to any number of local vinyl resellers (the better/higher-end of which may even come out to get them vs having them trucked in)
3. the electronics can be graded and appraised/sold here or on eBay
4. furniture jewelry and all the other trades can be called in for their items and
5. everybody can go home happy.

Once you get all that done - in addition to the various genres, artists, labels and formats listed above that are/can end up valuable or at least rare and interesting - there's also the TYPES of records that are interesting:

1. A vinyl pressing when all the other copies are shellac
2. Promo copies.
3. Colored vinyl or shellac (if different from reg issue i.e. blue Columbias don't count)
4. Picturediscs
5. Made out of other materials (i.e. cardboard or flexible plastic)
6. Home-recorded records or period advertisements
7. Odd sizes (besides 10" and 12" e.g. Playtime, Little Wonder or 20-inch Pathe's)
8. Those that play inside-out instead of outside-in.
9. Those that play from a vertical rather than lateral modulation other than Edison
10. Records that need both sides played at the same time to enjoy the full program*
11. Records that need two tonearms on the same side to play properly
12. Videodiscs (30-line video and mono audio all inside the audio band)
13. Constant Linear Velocity discs that gradually change speed when played.
14. Odd-size holes/More than one hole (other than lacquers and specialty discs)
15. Odd speeds (faster or slower than normal i.e. 120 RPM Pathes)
16. More than one speed on a side or disc (e.g.78 on one side/cut 45 on the other)
17. Extremely eccentric pressings or eccentric cuts on an acetate or pressing
18. Other mastering studio or pressing plant mistakes.
19. Doll or toy record masters (can also be cylinders)
20. The wax or lacquer masters or molds from any of the above

* Early high-fidelity and stereophonic experiments of the 20s and 30s used this

Many of these may fit more than one category. All deserve to be saved and at least auditioned to see what they are before placing them up for sale or adding to your own collection.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Location: Buffalo NY
The family already raided the place and took what they wanted...They don't want to waste the time selling the place because the nursing home would just take all of the proceeds (what little there would be)...There is no bank involved - he's 80 something and it's the house he grew up in. There's nothing worth taking from the house proper. The neighborhood is like a DMZ. He's one of the last holdouts when the neighborhood changed. The guy had electronic stuff up the wazoo. I was told the garage was FILLED with chassis', parts & equipment. All of that disappeared when they found the garage door kicked in. It's only a matter of time before the house is next - the houses next door on either side are vacant as are the houses across the street....My initial thought of the records was "meh, leave 'em", but I can't help that nagging feeling that for him to have hoarded all of those, there MUST be something there - or, with MY luck - not!

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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sat 17, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Location: Gold Country, (Stanislaus National Forest) California 95235
Like I said - save the records and the players and whatever else if you have a place to put em or can afford storage til you can go thru it.

Also draft your local antique radio and phonograph club to see what there is so you can get what little profit there is without just calling people up and saying ``hey come get everything in a free for all before it gets torn down''.

Even if they take anything and don't give you anything for it - at least it won't be in a landfill and SOMEBODY can get some use out of it.

Local university music libraries/archives are another avenue you can explore.

But don't let em all go in the landfill or become busted up to become just some more litter on an already polluted street/neighborhood.

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LN=kind. WR=abrasive. Engineers=same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Victrola one sided 78 record
PostPosted: Jun Sun 18, 2017 1:34 am 
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At least one record maker came up with a creative use for the blank side of the record. I have one that has a mini biography of the artist printed on the blank side.

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